Wild Fish..... Economics

[cchhcc]

The wild fish craze of late is interesting. Good to see some new blood in the hobby, but I am concerned that some people are getting "taken" along the way. There are certainly some honest vendors out there (many of which are represented here on MFK), but there are also some unscrupulous sellers too!

THE ECONOMICS OF THE SITUATION IS WHAT PUZZLES ME. If you've ever shipped large specimens anywhere in the US, much less internationally, you already know how expensive that is. Wild fish certainly had to endure quite a bit of shipping. Add to that the cost of collection, travel, etc. and it can really mount up. So, when I see a large wild fish offered for a couple of hundred dollars I can understand the costs involved, and the sales price seems appropriate. Certainly a group of wild fry or juvies can be shipped more cheaply, and in the case of a personal collecting trip one could actually bring small specimens back inexpensively (even as carry-on luggage!).......but then you've got the prices of the flight and other travel costs to factor in!

It seems there are lots of LARGE wild fish being offered in the hobby right now. I know one vendor who imports directly from operators in CA and SA and pays (and ultimately charges) top dollar for large specimens. Another apparently has operations in CA that collect and raise fish there before shipping them to the US. I'm not sure just how that works though as it would seem the only economically viable way to do that would be to ship the fish as youngsters, yet that vendor offers many large animals for sale rather inexpensively.

I guess my point is the numbers don't always seem to add up. I don't see how one could make a living incurring very high costs per animal in the collection, shipping, and raising process only to turn around and sell them rather inexpensively. The profit margin, if there is any, would have to be very tight. Add to that THIRD PARTY VENDORS and the feasibility comes even more into question.

I hope not to create some sort of controversial back and forth with this discussion, so if you can't be civil please don't contribute to the thread. Also, I hope this doesn't degenerate into a "wild fish are better" discussion. I'm really focussing on the economics of importing wilds.

 

[ScoobyRacing03]

Here is my 2 cents on the matter. I know a guy who does collections of wild fish and sells them I'll leave his name out of it but I'm sure some have bought from him. Wild caught just means they were captured in the wild. I wouldn't think that would mean the size you get it at is the size they were collected at. So here's my theory.
This guy I know has a fish farm in CA and also one in Florida. I'd imagine he'd collect the fish in the wild at a small size putting them on his farm in CA then transporting them to the one in Florida. As you stated much cheaper to ship smaller fish then a larger one. Those fish could be used for breading to get us all the F1's we are seeing around. Then as more smaller F0's are captured and start breading the larger could be getting sold as they would still be wild caught.

 

[Otherone]

Might not be very complicated at all - In business a whole lot of a little money can be just as good as a little bit of a lot of money. In other words a similair product being offered for a lower profit may very well turn over much faster and at a greater volume than those looking for a larger profit moving at a much slower rate and incurring a higher overhead maintence cost - this is just basics not a real answer.

 

[armac]

Might not be very complicated at all - In business a whole lot of a little money can be just as good as a little bit of a lot of money. In other words a similair product being offered for a lower profit may very well turn over much faster and at a greater volume than those looking for a larger profit moving at a much slower rate and incurring a higher overhead maintence cost - this is just basics not a real answer.

Look at it like this if you can bring a 100 F0 fry for hundred dollars in shipping or 2 large adults in for the same hundred dollars shipping. How long will it take you to make up your expenses, "a little bit" at a time. That is the point being made.

 

[caribemob]

Here is my 2 cents on the matter. I know a guy who does collections of wild fish and sells them I'll leave his name out of it but I'm sure some have bought from him. Wild caught just means they were captured in the wild. I wouldn't think that would mean the size you get it at is the size they were collected at. So here's my theory.
This guy I know has a fish farm in CA and also one in Florida. I'd imagine he'd collect the fish in the wild at a small size putting them on his farm in CA then transporting them to the one in Florida. As you stated much cheaper to ship smaller fish then a larger one. Those fish could be used for breading to get us all the F1's we are seeing around. Then as more smaller F0's are captured and start breading the larger could be getting sold as they would still be wild caught.

EXACTLY, its nothing for some vendors im not saying no names but every now and then they sell some of there wild breeding stock that they have in there pond's that are still wild fish but there in a pond, so when you have alot of breeding pairs for your project to last and continue, you can sell alot of your wild breeding stock. This is like common sense and its a very few that can do this , the rest of these so called vendors are cheap and if they get a wild fish they won't sell it to you. WHY you ask? well simply because they cant afford to and they breed that same one wild pair forever. and when they sell the pair they want a ridicoulous price. See the difference is that a couple of Vendor's aren't cheap like other's Bro, and most are on a small scale. We have some Vendors that supply asia,europe, and the U.S all with there facilities and stock that they own and constantly collect. SO WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ?

 

[Aquamojo]

Good points Chris. I'm not sure who the vendor is that you are referring, but if they collect and raise the fish in CA, they're not F0 fish IMHO. F0 fish come from a river/lake/stream and go into a tank.

Now that said, I can speak from personal experience and give you an example with the fish that i have brought back from collecting trips. More often than not, i am looking for a breeding pair and a spare. If I bring home six or seven of one species I generally will keep what I want and give or sell the other away. Im not the norm as I don't regularly do that. Unfortunately I would speculate that there is a percentage out there that use the F0 label as a means to increase the cost/value of the fish. I mean...how would you know for sure???

 

[caribemob]

if I collect a fish from a stream/lake/river in CA, and bring it to my pond its not a wild fish? Wow I'm confused here

 

[cchhcc]

Might not be very complicated at all - In business a whole lot of a little money can be just as good as a little bit of a lot of money. In other words a similair product being offered for a lower profit may very well turn over much faster and at a greater volume than those looking for a larger profit moving at a much slower rate and incurring a higher overhead maintence cost - this is just basics not a real answer.

Understood, but I think that addresses my basic point. How much large scale demand is there for little known species that appeal primarily to a bunch of fish guys that hang out on fish forums?

 

[caribemob]

Understood, but I think that addresses my basic point. How much large scale demand is there for little known species that appeal primarily to a bunch of fish guys that hang out on fish forums?

There is a huge asian and european market for rare cichlid's man, it isn't just us.

 

[cchhcc]

if I collect a fish from a stream/lake/river in CA, and bring it to my pond its not a wild fish? Wow I'm confused here

I think he's implying that wild fish are collected and then bred in ponds. The resulting fry then being considered wild because they are "born" in Central American ponds.

In that case, you no longer have true natural selection occurring due to the lack of predation and the elimination of many of the nuances of pair selection. What is the difference in that case vs an F1 born in the US of wild collected parents?

Seems like splitting hairs for sure, but with all the ichthyological (or ichthy-ILLogical) species splitting going on it would seem to be relevant.

.....doesn't mean the fish wouldn't be of fine quality though!