Wild Fish..... Economics

[caribemob]

I think he's implying that wild fish are collected and then bred in ponds. The resulting fry then being considered wild because they are "born" in Central American ponds.

In that case, you no longer have true natural selection occurring due to the lack of predation and the elimination of many of the nuances of pair selection. What is the difference in that case vs an F1 born in the US of wild collected parents?

Seems like splitting hairs for sure, but with all the ichthyological (or ichthy-ILLogical) species splitting going on it would seem to be relevant.

.....doesn't mean the fish wouldn't be of fine quality though!

no if i get 200 dovii of all sizes and bring them back to my pond and a year from now give you a 12'' pair of dovii ,isn't that a wild fish? i believe the small size ones after a year lets say 2'' or 3'' now they are F1 , do you understand this? that's the issue period

 

[cchhcc]

Yes, those would be wild. But what would be the point of raising them in CA? Every day they get larger the shipping costs increase exponentially.

Again, everyone, keep it civil. No need for smug remarks and rhetorical questions.

 

[BigPic]

but if they collect and raise the fish in CA, they're not F0 fish IMHO. F0 fish come from a river/lake/stream and go into a tank.

The F# indicates the generation, it doesn't matter if they were pulled from the river/creek/stream/lake/pond in the wild as just free swimming, they still originated as wild fish. If they are to be used as breeders once grown out, they ARE the F0 (wild) breeders, no two ways about it, their offspring will be F1 and so on.

For example, I could go to the LFS and buy 20 convicts to start a breeding program, since they are the first breeders in my program, they are the F0 fish, their offspring would be F1 and further generations would be F2, F3 and so on. The LFS cons are likely nothing more than mixed lineage tank bred mutts, but, I can give them the F0 designation in this case, they are the beginning of the line.

Sorry for following the derail-rail, back on topic. I think that there is a lot of confusion when it comes to prices on wild stock, for example you will rarely find wild Uruguayan fish on our list, simply because it's more effective to bring back the wilds and put them into breeding programs and supply F1 - the cost per fish would be way too high on the wilds. I think that the prices on W/C can be exaggerated in some cases, it all depends on the freight costs and how many stops they make along the way.

 

[caribemob]

Yes, those would be wild. But what would be the point of raising them in CA? Every day they get larger the shipping costs increase exponentially.

Again, everyone, keep it civil. No need for smug remarks and rhetorical questions.

no not in CA in FL bro, who said he raises them in CA? no one said that, and thanks for agreeing that they are still wild fish, that shows me that you now understand this particular vendor's process, here you go again, if he collects 200 dovii of all sizes from a lake/river , or stream and brings them back for a massive breeding project in FL . and a year later he sells you a 12'' breeding pair of dovii, aren't they wild? Exactly!!!!!!! OH AND i ASK RHETORICAL QUESTIONS for a reason, once people don't understand common sense it bother's me

 

[jgentry]

no if i get 200 dovii of all sizes and bring them back to my pond and a year from now give you a 12'' pair of dovii ,isn't that a wild fish? i believe the small size ones after a year lets say 2'' or 3'' now they are F1 , do you understand this? that's the issue period

That's not what they were questioning. I think the concern was that people (I don't know these people or if it is happening) are collecting wild fish in CA and putting them in secluded ponds that only have that species to breed them. The fry of these fish should not be considered wild. They should be sold as F1 as they are in all senses of the word captive bred.

As to what you were saying, a wild fish is a wild fish no matter were it has been or what size it was collected. If some brings a bunch of wilds to florida and raises them up and decides to sell a few they are still wilds and always will be.

 

[caribemob]

The F# indicates the generation, it doesn't matter if they were pulled from the river/creek/stream/lake/pond in the wild as just free swimming, they still originated as wild fish. If they are to be used as breeders once grown out, they ARE the F0 (wild) breeders, no two ways about it, their offspring will be F1 and so on.

For example, I could go to the LFS and buy 20 convicts to start a breeding program, since they are the first breeders in my program, they are the F0 fish, their offspring would be F1 and further generations would be F2, F3 and so on. The LFS cons are likely nothing more than mixed lineage tank bred mutts, but, I can give them the F0 designation in this case, they are the beginning of the line.

Sorry for following the derail-rail, back on topic. I think that there is a lot of confusion when it comes to prices on wild stock, for example you will rarely find wild Uruguayan fish on our list, simply because it's more effective to bring back the wilds and put them into breeding programs and supply F1 - the cost per fish would be way too high on the wilds. I think that the prices on W/C can be exaggerated in some cases, it all depends on the freight costs and how many stops they make along the way.

MY POINT EXACTLY BIG PIC

 

[armac]

CA means Central America.........not Cali

 

[BigPic]

The point is, people need to understand that the F0 doesn't mean wild, it means the starter generation.

 

[jgentry]

The point is, people need to understand that the F0 doesn't mean wild, it means the starter generation.

This is very true in Biology terms. But the aquarium industry has been using it to mean wild or first generation for a long time. So for aquarium fish it does mean wild or first generation. Is it the corect nomenclature as it was ment to be use? No. Unless the hobby adopts a different naming though poeple will consider F0 to mean wild and F1 to mean first generation.

I agree completely that it is not how it was supposed to be named, but after it is used to a certain period of time doesn't it become true or if not true at least the accept method of naming?

 

[cchhcc]

I think that there is a lot of confusion when it comes to prices on wild stock, for example you will rarely find wild Uruguayan fish on our list, simply because it's more effective to bring back the wilds and put them into breeding programs and supply F1 - the cost per fish would be way too high on the wilds. I think that the prices on W/C can be exaggerated in some cases, it all depends on the freight costs and how many stops they make along the way.

Perfect!

That makes my point exactly. When a vendor (you) expresses the economic realities people should take note. "The cost per fish would be way to high on the wilds."