Wtf are my turtles doing

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Now I'm not even joking I was the first one to say you have ninja turtles (WHICH ARE MALE!) so I have won with a clever word choice.
 
You cannot assume that just because they are using foreclaw displays that they are both males or even displaying for dominance or breeding. That was long considered the reasons but a few researchers have been doing some long term work on this turtle communication and coming up with some new information. I got to work with Dr. Thomas for a year and this guy knows what he is talking about. Here is a link to one of his papers on the subject. Several of his other papers on the topic can be found on google scholar. Well worth it if you are into turtles.

http://www.bioone.org/doi/pdf/10.1656/1528-7092(2006)5[227:COTFDB]2.0.CO;2
 
RMorrow said:
You cannot assume that just because they are using foreclaw displays that they are both males or even displaying for dominance or breeding. That was long considered the reasons but a few researchers have been doing some long term work on this turtle communication and coming up with some new information. I got to work with Dr. Thomas for a year and this guy knows what he is talking about. Here is a link to one of his papers on the subject. Several of his other papers on the topic can be found on google scholar. Well worth it if you are into turtles.

http://www.bioone.org/doi/pdf/10.1656/1528-7092(2006)5[227:COTFDB]2.0.CO;2
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Interesting article.
 
RMorrow said:
You cannot assume that just because they are using foreclaw displays that they are both males or even displaying for dominance or breeding. That was long considered the reasons but a few researchers have been doing some long term work on this turtle communication and coming up with some new information. I got to work with Dr. Thomas for a year and this guy knows what he is talking about. Here is a link to one of his papers on the subject. Several of his other papers on the topic can be found on google scholar. Well worth it if you are into turtles.

http://www.bioone.org/doi/pdf/10.1656/1528-7092(2006)5[227:COTFDB]2.0.CO;2
Click to expand...

Thanks thats a neat article i just keep my eye on them to make sure i don't see anything different.....


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Females will do the courting behavior as well, it isn't just males. I've never seen both turtles do it at the same time like that though.
 
As mentioned, any long-term keeper should be able to tell you that both males and females will do this, and it's ALWAYS a sign of dominance. Either they're trying to show dominance for the purpose of courtship, or they're trying to show dominance purely as a sign of aggression. I've personally seen this behavior followed by successful mating and by one turtle killing the other. As they're too small to sex, you can't really know which it is.

Josh H
 
Creek_stomper said:
As mentioned, any long-term keeper should be able to tell you that both males and females will do this, and it's ALWAYS a sign of dominance. Either they're trying to show dominance for the purpose of courtship, or they're trying to show dominance purely as a sign of aggression. I've personally seen this behavior followed by successful mating and by one turtle killing the other. As they're too small to sex, you can't really know which it is.

Josh H
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Unfortunately, the latest research does not support your statement. Neither does the observations that we have made in the wild and captivity over the past 30+ years. The display can be displaying much more than just dominance.
 
RMorrow said:
Unfortunately, the latest research does not support your statement. Neither does the observations that we have made in the wild and captivity over the past 30+ years. The display can be displaying much more than just dominance.
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From what I've seen and heard, the scientific community is only saying that it's not specifically a mating behavior all the time from both genders, nor is it specifically purposed for stimulation purposes. I've seen absolutely no reputable sources claim that it wasn't always related to dominance. Dominance displays can serve a myriad of purposes, and don't always look aggressive. To say that it is not a dominance display would imply that at times fluttering is a display of submissiveness. If you can find me some reputable sources that make this claim, then I'd be more than willing to take a look at them.

Josh H
 
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