WTF!!! Evil Nitrates

[zennzzo]

whered you get that crap from?

nitrates dont turn into gas with a breeze

thats total bull****!

for nitrate to be converted into nitrogen gas the bacteria that do this need an anerobic enviroment to live. and any introducion of oxygen will kill them.

this idea may be benificial to the aerobic bacteria that oxidize ammonia and nitrite, but will in no way affect nitrate levels.

I stand corrected delgado, my bad...

But then tell me kind sir why my nitrate levels drop like they did when I opened up the enclosure I had my filter housed in and venting the system. I was getting zero on the ammonia and nitrites before and after...

So then, where and when do the nitrates gas off or rather not gas off because of "Any" introduction of oxygen....seems to me there is oxygen all through out my filtration system...
I must be all foked up in my understanding of the Nitrogen cycle, And I know my eyes are bad, but I do know what my DIY wet/dry filter can produce numbers wise and healthy fish in crystal clear H20 is not too very hard to recognize...

 

[zennzzo]

Wow, thanks for all the input. I will try the fan idea over each XP3. and also I cannot cut back on the feeding of the Pbass or the will not grow to normal size. They are too young for that still. Thanks for the ideas.

I need to clarify the type of filtration I built consists of a mechanical floss/foam/felt stack, bioballz that are vented to the outside of the container and fed from a pump "in" the tank, then gravity returned...That is what I vent with a slight bit of airflow...
An XP3 is a closed cannister and placing airflow to the outside of it will do nothing for filteration...

 

[CHOMPERS]

But then tell me kind sir why my nitrate levels drop like they did...

Mind if I answer that one? On the internet, the scientific method has been thrown out (along with peer review and critical thinking). On the internet, if something is in print and sounds good, it must be true. Same goes if enough people are repeating the same thing. The fact is, anyone can print anything on the internet and no matter how wrong it is, there is rarely anything anyone can do to remove it or correct it. As far as your bad eye sight, don’t worry about that because the scientific community has the same affliction. There is research going on in Japan using wet/dry filters to remove nitrAtes in outdoor Koi ponds. And the Japanese LOVE to overstock their Koi ponds. One of the weird things that they found out is that the worse the water was before starting the experiment, the higher the chances of success turned out to be. If they started with a sterile filter and clean water, they would rarely get a bacteria culture that would consume nitrAtes.

Here is the skinny on anaerobic bacteria:
Anaerobic bacteria converted our prehistoric atmosphere into the oxygen rich atmosphere we have today. In our oxygen rich atmosphere, according to the internet myth, all anaerobic bacteria should be dead. This is not the case. The fact is, oxygen does not kill anaerobic bacteria anymore than the carbon dioxide that you are breathing will kill you (ambient, not concentrated). Anaerobic bacteria grows and metabolizes much slower than aerobic bacteria. In an O2 rich environment, aerobic bacteria quickly grows and anaerobic bacteria grows very slowly (it has a hard time getting beneficial gasses). (A good analogy would be a tree growing in a CO2 rich environment vs. a CO2 poor environment.) When both bacteria are placed in an oxygen poor environment, such as a septic tank, the aerobic bacteria grow slowly and/or die off and the anaerobic bacteria proliferate. The anaerobic bacteria still grow and metabolize slowly, but their numbers will be higher because they are no longer competing with the aerobic bacteria for food.

Here is my speculation what is happening in your tank:
Either you have a culture of anaerobic bacteria living in harmony with your aerobic bacteria, or some aerobic bacteria may actually play a part in breaking down nitrAtes

 

[DeLgAdO]

I stand corrected delgado, my bad...

But then tell me kind sir why my nitrate levels drop like they did when I opened up the enclosure I had my filter housed in and venting the system. I was getting zero on the ammonia and nitrites before and after...

So then, where and when do the nitrates gas off or rather not gas off because of "Any" introduction of oxygen....seems to me there is oxygen all through out my filtration system...
I must be all foked up in my understanding of the Nitrogen cycle, And I know my eyes are bad, but I do know what my DIY wet/dry filter can produce numbers wise and healthy fish in crystal clear H20 is not too very hard to recognize...

nitrate is consumed if you have either a deep substrate, or a filter medium that is either so pourous or compact that it creates an anerobic environment for these bacteria to thrive, now i doubt you have either of these, but i must ask what kind of filter medium do you use in your Filter system?. and gasing off is unessesary, the end product is nitrogen gas, which is 70% of the earths atmospheric gases so you dont need to "gas off" anything.

 

[DeLgAdO]

Here is the skinny on anaerobic bacteria:
Anaerobic bacteria converted our prehistoric atmosphere into the oxygen rich atmosphere we have today. In our oxygen rich atmosphere, according to the internet myth, all anaerobic bacteria should be dead. This is not the case. The fact is, oxygen does not kill anaerobic bacteria anymore than the carbon dioxide that you are breathing will kill you (ambient, not concentrated). Anaerobic bacteria grows and metabolizes much slower than aerobic bacteria. In an O2 rich environment, aerobic bacteria quickly grows and anaerobic bacteria grows very slowly (it has a hard time getting beneficial gasses). (A good analogy would be a tree growing in a CO2 rich environment vs. a CO2 poor environment.) When both bacteria are placed in an oxygen poor environment, such as a septic tank, the aerobic bacteria grow slowly and/or die off and the anaerobic bacteria proliferate. The anaerobic bacteria still grow and metabolize slowly, but their numbers will be higher because they are no longer competing with the aerobic bacteria for food.

One of the earliest types of bacteria were the cyanobacteria. Fossil evidence indicates that these bacteria existed approximately 3.3 billion years ago and were the first oxygen-producing evolving phototropic organisms. They were responsible for the initial conversion of the earth's atmosphere from an anoxic state to an oxic state (that is, from a state without oxygen to a state with oxygen). Being the first to carry out oxygenic photosynthesis, they were able to convert carbon dioxide into oxygen, playing a major role in oxygenating the atmosphere.

taken from wikipedia:

Photosynthesis in cyanobacteria generally uses water as an electron donor and produces oxygen as a by-product, though some may also use hydrogen sulfide as occurs among other photosynthetic bacteria. Carbon dioxide is reduced to form carbohydrates via the Calvin cycle. In most forms the photosynthetic machinery is embedded into folds of the cell membrane, called thylakoids. The large amounts of oxygen in the atmosphere are considered to have been first created by the activities of ancient cyanobacteria. Due to their ability to fix nitrogen in aerobic conditions they are often found as symbionts with a number of other groups of organisms such as fungi (lichens), corals, pteridophytes (Azolla), angiosperms (Gunnera) etc.

Cyanobacteria are the only group of organisms that are able to reduce nitrogen and carbon in aerobic conditions, a fact that may be responsible for their evolutionary and ecological success. The water-oxidizing photosynthesis is accomplished by coupling the activity of photosystem (PS) II and I. They are also able to use in anaerobic conditions only PS I—cyclic photophosphorylation—with electron donors other than water (hydrogen sulfide, thiosulphate, or even molecular hydrogen) just like purple photosynthetic bacteria. Furthermore, they share an archaebacterial property—the ability to reduce elemental sulfur by anaerobic respiration in the dark. Perhaps the most intriguing thing about these organisms is that their photosynthetic electron transport shares the same compartment as the components of respiratory electron transport. Actually, their plasma membrane contains only components of the respiratory chain, while the thylakoid membrane hosts both respiratory and photosynthetic electron transport

 

[zennzzo]

I will try to say this as respectful as I can, and with all due respect to Tankbuster, I want to apoligize for my part in thread hyjacking a very simple Nitrate conceren.

I'm sure he wasn't trying to seek out the oldest lifeform that allowed for our oxygen rich atmosphere. I'm almost for sure he wasn't digging up hours of bactriological data to support a point of view...he had a concern with his nitrate level and what he could do to lower it...

Now I could post a bunch of superfolous factoidz, but that doesn't get his concern dealt with.

I was only trying to shed a little light on what my experience was on the matter and what solutions I found to work for me...

I really didn't expect anybody to call me/my system/concept, or results bullsiht.
I have no problem with a constructive critique either. But to have a condensending attitude, and basically state that I am a liar?
How in the hell does that give Tankbuster anything to work with?

So if anybody has anything to add to this mans NITRATE issue, I'm sure he would appreciate it..

Oh and one more thing...If ANYBOODY has any issues with my integrity or the accuracy of my results or what the FOK ever, man-up and handle your business...
PM me and we'll work things out, or not...
This is a cool place to hang out and discuss our intrest, if I am in need of correcting by all means get your corrector on...~Ben

 

[DeLgAdO]

I will try to say this as respectful as I can, and with all due respect to Tankbuster, I want to apoligize for my part in thread hyjacking a very simple Nitrate conceren.

I'm sure he wasn't trying to seek out the oldest lifeform that allowed for our oxygen rich atmosphere. I'm almost for sure he wasn't digging up hours of bactriological data to support a point of view...he had a concern with his nitrate level and what he could do to lower it...

Now I could post a bunch of superfolous factoidz, but that doesn't get his concern dealt with.

I was only trying to shed a little light on what my experience was on the matter and what solutions I found to work for me...

I really didn't expect anybody to call me/my system/concept, or results bullsiht.
I have no problem with a constructive critique either. But to have a condensending attitude, and basically state that I am a liar?
How in the hell does that give Tankbuster anything to work with?

*snickers* relaxe dude the cyanobacteria was just an fyi. Pretty interesting stuff.

 

[DeLgAdO]

So if anybody has anything to add to this mans NITRATE issue, I'm sure he would appreciate it..

RIGHT HERE!!

give this a go

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4169&N=2004+113804

Note:Have a damn good mechanical filter medium, if you get organic matter trapped within this thing the anaerobic bacteria that form with eat it and convert it to hydrogen sulfide and other toxic gases, and this will kill your fish.

 

[zennzzo]

whered you get that crap from?
nitrates dont turn into gas with a breezethats total bull****!

Just as I suspected,
If what is quoted above does not imply I'm not being truthful in my results, then what's up with calling them crap and total bullsiht?

I don't need to copy and paste googled up refferences, to make my results valid.
I don't need valadation from a snot faced undergrad to approve or disapprove anything I personally decide to take on build. See I am not a "read and be the expert" kinda dude...

I did my research, built my own filter based on what I belived to be effective and cycled it fishless untill I was sure of the results.
I may not know all the correct nomenclature, but I do what my results say.
The most important one being a zero mortality rate due to unfit water.

I'm not sure what your *snicker* is all about. It must be because you can raise the dander of a man who places a high value on integrity, and through the safe comfort of your keyboard, when you are called on it, you think you can simply wash it with a cheesy comment of finding a subject "interesting"

Personally I find that to have as much integrity as puppy drool...

Now that I'm sure you are crystal clear with my views on integrity...

Having all that data cereberally available at your disposal, What did you design and build to keep your H20 nice and Pristine...
this I am sure I will find interesting...~Ben
What did you design and build to keep your water pristine

 

[DeLgAdO]

Just as I suspected,
If what is quoted above does not imply I'm not being truthful in my results, then what's up with calling them crap and total bullsiht?

because it is, dont take it to the heart, those are just my words of choice.

Having all that data cereberally available at your disposal, What did you design and build to keep your H20 nice and Pristine...
this I am sure I will find interesting...~Ben
What did you design and build to keep your water pristine

i havnt designed anything

nothing beat water changes (70% twice a week) to keep your water at peak

i dont have to invent anything

the drip system and wet-dry have already been made.

and tell me whats to design?

is combining two rubbermaids that hard?