Xystichromis Kyoga Flamebacks

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OK let me disect this post of yours...

I am currently a member of HCCC which probably has more Victorian cichlid breeders than most states. We have a few of the leading experts in this field that I have had the great pleasure of dealing with in person on several occasions.

My personal collection of Victorians includes the following species
Astatotilapia sp. '44'
Mbipia lutea
Mbipia mbipi
Paralabidochromis chromogynos
Paralabidochromis sp. "Rock kribensis" Uganda yellow
Paralabidochromis sp. "fire red Uganda"
Platytaeniodus sp. "Red Tailed Sheller"
Pundamilia nyereri
Pundamilia nyereri Igombie Island
Pundamilia nyereri Anchor Island
Pundamilia sp. "Blue Bar"Hippo Point
Pyxichromis orthostoma
Xystichromis sp. "Kyoga flameback"
Xystichromis sp. "flameback"

The following species will be added when I get finish rearranging my tanks and get some fish shipped to some friends.
Xystichromis phytophagus
Xystichromis sp. "Dayglow"
Enterochromis sp. "red back scraper"

Some other rare Africans I am keeping are:
Paratilipia sp. "Marolambo"
Paretroplus kieneri
Paretroplus menarambo
Katria katria
Thysochromis ansorgii
Stomatepia pindu

These are only my cichlids. I also have a very large predator collection of Bichirs, pike cichlids, catfish and puffers.


I have been keeping and breeding fish for aprox 29 years. There were some on again and off again times.

If you can id the fish as you say you can then why can you not give the criteria you are using to make the ID?

I know they came from the same breeder because you gave me the name and he stated in his post where the ones he got came from so I was assuming nothing.

I am pulling articles that have scientific basis to try and find out some of the identifying traits present in the various species that are showing up in the fish market. I have repeatedly posted information from an article that has some of the ways to identify the sp."Kyoga Flameback" and have asked you and others to provide additional identifiers but to this point all you have done is felt attacked by me and became defensive. I have stated repeatedly I do not care what your fish is all I am looking for is the facts you used to identify this fish as a sp."Kyoga Flameback"

You stated earlier:
" It's this simple, I paid good money for them from a very good seller and I expect them to be it. Obviously they are not xystichromis flameback. They just don't fit it,"

So far all you have provided as an identifier is that the seller told you that is what they are. You also state that they are not sp. "Flameback" because it does not fit it. What is it? Where is this description? Are you getting your facts from the Greenwood paper? That is what I am looking for the source of your identifiers. If you want me to say it according to what you have told me your fish are sp. "Kyoga Flameback". There now just explain to me how you made this ID.

My own personal experience with Victorians is that IDing them is almost impossible with out disecting them. One of Greenwood's IDers is the length of the intestines and I do not know of anyway to measure this without killing the fish. One of the big visual identifiers for the sp."Kyoga Flameback" is the pressence of the horizontal barring and absence of the vertical barring thus is why I was asking if yours had barring that was not showing up in the pics.


tydus;2227574; said:
I want to know..... How much experience do you have with victorians? What kind of victorians have you kept and bred? And what is your problem? Do you know that colors of the fish fluctuates depending on so many factors such as water parameters, mood, tank setup, etc etc. I have bred pundamilia crimson tides, pundamilia nyererei ruti islands and python islands, ruby greens, zebra obliquidens, and xystichromis flameback. I can easily distinguish each and every one of those victorian cichlids from experience. I am currently breeding and mainly focusing on the kyoga flamebacks. And they are not ruby greens, hap. tomato, red back scraper, hybrids nor are they the xystichromis flamebacks as stated before on the other forums and such. And also, those pictures I posted of the other kyoga flamebacks, how do you know they come from the same supplier, because I don't know even where Kevin's came from. LOL. Stop assuming things if you don't know the facts and lack personal experience. :grinno: All I see is you grabbing and taking information from the web and posting them up. Do you yourself have anything to share from your own personal knowledge with victorians?

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff204/brivang/?action=view&current=brianpics074.flv
Click to expand...
 
BriansFISH112_edited.jpg


Here's a bit more enhanced picture.

I have read almost everything there is to read about victorian cichlids. Especially on "Kyoga Flambacks." My male "Kyoga Flameback" has a bar that begins from the corner of his lips that runs through his eyes to almost the top of his head. The lower portion of his head is blue not yellow nor red. His lips are blue and not yellow. He has a lateral bar that runs from the beginning of his gills to his peduncle which breaks into pieces and resembles bars which are not evident like the "Nyererei" species but are faint. The lower flanks of my male "KF" are yellow and turns into lime-green ending at the peduncle and his anal fins are whitish blue and becomes red towards the perimeter. His dorsal fin is red running all the way until the end where it becomes bluish and his caudal fin is red broken up by blue streaks but is red around the perimeter of the fin and his pelvic fins are black. My "Kyoga Flamebacks" are very docile fish. Sometimes my male flares to the my juvenile male nyererei in the tank but only because of the similarity of colors they share. He does not bully the tank mates and only do so when breeding (chasing fish around to get them out of the way). I have done a lot of studying on these fish and have observed mine thoroughly. I do see why you are very peculiar of my fish as your "KF" probably doesn't show the faint vertical bars as much. But from what I've seen, not all these fish are created equal and not all of them will have the same exact markings. What matters is that it must carry the qualities used to decipher it from the rest of the similar fish or families. And I know that there are many victorians out there that are so similar that getting a positive identification is almost impossible. But this is how I look at it, there are only a handful of victorians that are available to the public, and the chances of you landing something so rare in the hobby like Hap. Tomato is very low. The only people that come to my mind would not be hobbyists but the people who actually do research on these beautiful and magnificient creatures. That's why I know my fish can't be the Hap. Tomato. If that were the case, I'd be even happier. My male is not a nyererei, for it lacks the distinct and dark vertical barring that males carry with them and especially when they color up, it's not a ruby green because he does not have or get jet black or even just faintly black on the lower half of his body, he's not a Haplochromis "Flameback" for he does not exhibit from my experience and observation of hap. "FB" to have the blueish green found on the lower half of his body and the bluish green found at the top of the dorsal fin, he's not a Haplochromis "Red Back Scraper" because does not have the blue edges when they are so magnificiently colored. There. I don't want to have to go and explain every single detail. I would have to write an essay, and I hate writing essays. lol. Not that this isn't already half of one already. lol.

But anyways, you have a great collection and god bless you for being so lucky as to have an abundance of victorian cichlid enthusiasts around you. Being from Central California, the only other person that I know of who has victorian cichlids is my buddy Joe. I am limited to money, and distance, if that weren't the case, I'd have a whole house full of cichlids like Pam Chin. Care to share any of your photos as I would love to see your fish. Thanks.
 
Thanks for the great reply. I was thinking about this and I guess I came off as I was doubting your fish but the truth is I was looking for the identifiers that you just took the time to type out. For example when I replied back to another post stating "Why does it look like a KF to you?" it was not that I doubted the person but I wanted the tools they used to increase my own abilities in iding the fish. None of my questions were aimed at your abilities or your fish but at my ignorance at being able to ID.

There was another post on cichlid room where someone stated that there should be no red in the anal fin. GAS has written "The anal fin is white-blue becoming red at the outer portion". So now I have another area of confussion.
 
No problem Tezr. I truly appreciate your input and without a doubt, you are one of the biggest, if not the biggest Victorian fanatic on here. I'm still trying to introduce many people to these addictions, and have accomplished a few with friends on here. Anyone from HCCC are true victorian lovers. My brother use to go on there a lot but he's been extremely busy and so has to step out for a while. You need to come onto MFK more often and share your wonderful fish. And as for not having no red on the anal fin... there's more things to learn everyday... Victorians are challenging and that's what keeps me coming back for more. All extremely diverse, yet extremely similar. My passion for these fish will always keep me looking for answers also. Whatever knowledge you have to contribute, please contribute as I'm sure we can learn a lot from you and eachother. Truly, thanks.
 
I think that we are all discovering how difficult the road of vics are. We are using identifications that where generalized for entire groups, when in reality we are find that they are not as generalized as we thought. Worse many species disappeared before being identified, or entered the trade before then died out in the wild.

We are left to figure out a lot... who know what will happen if it turns out to be more color morphs than we know about... Many years of breeding could change it as well...
 
mahemaheman85;2230107; said:
im glad he put a pic up cause they dont have very good color at all
Click to expand...

It's not that, it's just that I'd just rather invest all of my time into kyoga flamebacks. I'm sure that they are beautiful and the pics don't really do them justice.
 
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