Speak for yourself I eat the meat I kill. I eat the deer because I would like the person who rents the land to make a living too. I know many people in my family who wouldn't be able to put food on the table fallowing your plan. It's easy to talk on a soapbox all day but when you get down off it it suddenly becomes a heck of a lot harder to actually do something.
You can save the world right now.
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WHOA WHOA WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.You are correct, the earth will soldier on after we are gone, probably. But why make it and ourselves suffer in the meantime? That's like giving someone a routine surgery and not giving them pain meds. Why? Cause they will survive without, so why bother? It's the easy way out that requires the least amount of effort and has the maximum consequences, which in our case would be extinction.
And yes hunting is cruel and unnecessary, you don't NEED that meat, so why go out and kill it? There's plenty at the supermarket? And in terms of digesting meat, it doesnt matter if its wild or factory bred, our intestines aren't good at digesting it. Look at a carnivors digestive track, its shorter than ours and has much more concentrated stomach acid. My argument isn't if we can or can't physically eat meat, but whether if we should?
Its cruel for me to do what happens in nature on a daily basis but its less cruel to buy meat that was easily twice as tortured as a deer I could shoot myself? Why don't I NEED the meat??? I have to eat to survive right?
Did you not say my point was that I was "leaving my mess for someone else"? Is that not what you just told me to do by not hunting and buying meat instead? To hell with getting my hands dirty right? Let someone else kill the animal, as long as I can't see how poorly they are treated its better than hunting it myself. Out of sight out of mind would be appropriate for that absolutely silly point you just tried making.
I know how digestive tracts work, and you are right ours aren't designed like an obligate carnivores is, but we still have the means to digest meat...it isn't the meat itself that gives our bodies problems....its the way its processed....I've never had health issues resulting from deer meat or locally caught fish, but fast food? Store bought ground beef? Absolutely.
By the way, a stronger concentration of stomach acid would dictate the need to digest bone and sinew, which an obligate carnivore needs in its diet. We don't have a need to digest bone or sinew due to us being omnivores and deriving the nutrients we miss there in other sources.
Just curious but to what degree of connection do you have to peta?(not people eating tasty animals)
I'm actually still a little bewildered and angry at that point you just tried to make.
I don't put a deer in a pen big enough for it to stand up, living in its own excrement, feeding it on garbage grain and byproduct of your beloved vegetable industry, then one day just decide its big and fat enough to put down and process. There is nothing cruel about hunting done right but there is plenty of cruelty in how your packaged meat at the super market came to be. Damn that was stupid...I'm sorry but there is no other way to describe that.
I don't put a deer in a pen big enough for it to stand up, living in its own excrement, feeding it on garbage grain and byproduct of your beloved vegetable industry, then one day just decide its big and fat enough to put down and process. There is nothing cruel about hunting done right but there is plenty of cruelty in how your packaged meat at the super market came to be. Damn that was stupid...I'm sorry but there is no other way to describe that.
....how would human population NOT increase? His point is 100% valid...I don't think you should use the fact that the human population may or may not continue to increase, we don't know what will happen in the futere, as an argument for doing nothing and just letting whatever may happen happen. Let's deal with our environment first, then worry about where everyone will live, cause we have the capabilities to feed everyone and then some on earth a vegan diet, which if varied and balanced, is exceptionally good for your health.
I don't think you should use the fact that the human population may or may not continue to increase, we don't know what will happen in the futere, as an argument for doing nothing and just letting whatever may happen happen. Let's deal with our environment first, then worry about where everyone will live, cause we have the capabilities to feed everyone and then some on earth a vegan diet, which if varied and balanced, is exceptionally good for your health.
Hello; I will assume this response is directed at my post although you are sometimes hard to decipher. The population has indeed continued to increase and was still doing so as of the last reports I am aware of. The expectation is that the human population will continue to increase untill some critical limiting factor or threshold is reached.
Also being childless is not doing nothing, at least in my opinion.
Deal with the environment first and then worry about where everyone will live? Where everyone will live also involves how they will be able to live in a place. Not sure if a total vegan diet could actually feed the total human population or not, but will conceeded the point for the discussion of this thread. There is more involved in the human quality of life than having enough food. Food is at the top of the list to be sure. Other things matter as well.
There have been some studies done where groups of animals in a finite environment have plenty of food. As I recall, even with more than enough food other limiting factors come into play. Some environmental issues have nothing to do with the food supply.
Hello; Check out this link, it should give some credence to my post on population.
http://www.worldometers.info/
http://www.worldometers.info/
Yeah its cruel and unnecessary to hunt, just as its cruel and unnecessary to farm animals for slaughter. Are you really saying its OK to hunt cause animals do it in the wild? Are you a wild animal? Will you starve if you don't hunt? See, its unnecessary. And if you had to hunt and kill the animal yourself, then yeah there would be a lot more vegans, thats why i become vegan. That's what I'm saying, yeas you can choose to eat meat, hunt, kill and the like, but I choose not to. This isn't if hunting is right or wrong, which I believe it's wrong, but whether or not eating meat is worth the impact on the world.
Just because I could go and buy my food at a store does not make it any less unnecessary to hunt if I so choose to feed myself that way. At this point your moral compass is so close to your face you can't see past your silly points. If you HAD to hunt, you would be dead waiting for your garden to grow. If the world infrastructure were to collapse, electricity, water, everything were to go away, you would abandon your veganism as your basic instinct to survive kicked in. Your morals you are fighting so hard to press onto the world would collapse and you would look to people who know how to survive for guidance and survival.Yeah its cruel and unnecessary to hunt, just as its cruel and unnecessary to farm animals for slaughter. Are you really saying its OK to hunt cause animals do it in the wild? Are you a wild animal? Will you starve if you don't hunt? See, its unnecessary. And if you had to hunt and kill the animal yourself, then yeah there would be a lot more vegans, thats why i become vegan. That's what I'm saying, yeas you can choose to eat meat, hunt, kill and the like, but I choose not to. This isn't if hunting is right or wrong, which I believe it's wrong, but whether or not eating meat is worth the impact on the world.
I DO have to hunt, because I don't want to poison myself completely with the food I can easily buy at the store. I grow vegetables too, but NEVER would I rely on a slow growing plant as my sole source of nutrition. Do I buy processed crap at the store? Of course...I'm not a completely wild individual but if that were to go away tomorrow I would do just fine without it. You are basing your entire argument on the perpetual survival of the human race which is highly unlikely.
Your argument of hunting being unnecessary is again based solely on the hope that the creature comforts we have today will still be there tomorrow...its foolish to say hunting isn't a valuable tool to utilize...
Lets turn this argument in your favor for a second. Lets say you get your way and the world relies completely on fruits, vegetables, and whatever else you see as acceptable nutrition. So now we have these massive fields, silos, green houses and storage facilities that a company or more likely multiple conglomerates are running. The wild animal populations bounce back and now with an overabundant food source they soon begin to spiral into overpopulation. What happens when these animals seek the food your green loving (pun intended) companies are growing in massive quantities all over the world? They are exterminated because they pose a threat to not only the world's ONLY allowable food supply, they also cut into the profits of these people running the show. What is done with the corpses of all these pests utilized for? Fertilizer perhaps? Either way they are dead and gone with an all to sad ending in your fantasy land of veganism. Do you see at all the point I've been making this whole time? Humans will forever try to control the world and ultimately destroy themselves regardless of whether I become a rabbit or eat the rabbit.
Skjl, I completely agree with the issue of over population, from 1912 to 2012 the population went from around 1 billion to over 7 billion. Will veganism help this? Maybe, itl certainly create more free land space that was previously used for farming, and the decrease in greenhouse gasses will result in a better climate so there wouldn't be as many man made uninhabitable areas around the world. But what I want to discuss is that eating meat and dairy is causing serious issues, and at the end of the day, is it really worth it?
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