YOUR input on cost of CB Marbles

[earthstudent]

DB I agree very much with your gene thoughts. My only difference if it is one, is that genes are obviously passed to the offspring, that is simple biology. But the gene combination is very complicated and at this point I don't think there is a single person in the world that can tell you what genes or combination of genes effect the patterns of a stingray. I'm pretty sure there has not been enough genetic studies done on rays at this point.

I would guess that there are several genes and combinations of genes that effect the pattern on a ray. And some will probably not express them selves in every pup from a specific parent or possibly any pup that parent puts out.

Possibly like humans, which eye and hair color is not always determined by what your parents have but is often similar. There are many genes that play a role in these features. You can get a red head from 2 dark brown hair parents and you can get a green eyed kid from one parent with blue eyes and the other brown eyed. You can get a super model woman from two ugly parents.

My point is that you will have better chances of having stunning pups if the parents are also stunning but there are no guarantees.

As far as price... maybe you should give us a taster of the quality you are talking about and post some pics of some rays and maybe you could get some feed back as to what people would pay for a ray like that? A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[HULON]

To me the whole subject is comical.

Is there other animals out there that truley have no traces of parental genes to them? I find the thought alone VERY hard to wrap my mind around. DNA? That's not relevant.... lol. Genes are genes. Not many people are gonna argue that genes are irrelevant. Parents of a ray mean more to me then what the ray currently looks like. Why? cause I KNOW it's gonna change.

I like to think I have just as much experience with Marbles as anyone. I've owned many. Bred them, watched them grow, watched them die. I've watched ugly ducklings turn into swans and even witnessed the opposite, which VERY few people even thought possible. I've raised several of them for several years and learned a lot from it.

I guess time will tell on the whole parents playing a role in what the ray looks like. I can see parental traits in the rays I breed very quickly. The last pup carries identical spotting of the mother, who carries a Marble pattern I'm not sure I've ever seen before. A lack of dots from the spiracles forward. Guess what? Pup is identical. I personally can't wait for a few years from now as I think we will be learning a lot watching these CBs rays evolve and change.

Marbles change.... That's a fact. I wouldn't ever judge one by current appearence. Many get ugly with age. Ever thought that's why we see such beautiful pups from less then stellar parents? Maybe cause in the long run they will end up loosing the pattern just like the genes that were handed to them tell them to do. Not all Marbles loose thier patterns. Now wouldn't that play a part in the value of them?

Max size is another good point..... Wouldn't the pup of a 3' 6 year old ray tend to grow larger then the pup of a 18" 12 year old ray? Is one more desireable then the other? To me, since I enjoy rays in tanks over ponds, the answer is yes, I'd gladly pay more for a smaller max size.

I'd just like to say that what I think is absolutely out of the equasion when it does come down to pricing. Obviously I love Marbles. So much that I'm willing to pay more for Marbles then the majority of MFK. Without the "I don't care what they cost" attitude I wouldn't have the collection I do, but I set out on a mission to amass an insane collection of Marbles and make the higher grade we usually only see pics of available to the community here. I can't do this alone. (hint hint Diggin) I need help from other Marble conessuers so we can keep the genepool large. I figure what better way to get on the same page as the others then to start a thread like this and exchange ideas, views, beliefs, and experiences.

Maybe my views and opinions will change. Maybe others' will. Trials and tribulations can sometimes lead to narrowmindedness, and that can be frustrating.

To me the funniest thing about all this is who gets to take it in the shorts? I do!!!! I paid the piper, I lined people's pockets paying 4 digits for several of what I consider to be some of the nicest Marbles offered for sale on this site since I became a member. I thought that alone was reason to charge a lil more but I guess in the long run it may not matter.

Guess what? I could care less. I love these animals and I'd do it again. I've always been in it for the hobby and not the $. I just hope that these lil buggers are appreciated as much by other hobbyists as they are by me. Why did I pay such stupid money for these things you may be asking yourself..... Well the answer is simple. So you won't have to. So you can enjoy these creatures for what they SHOULD cost. NOT what they cost me. The reason for this thread is to figure out that "Should". Maybe that "should" has already been established by breeders before me like Diggin, Pat, Brad, and JimR. If so I'm jealous, as I think I may have overpaid ALOT. Oh well I did it for the nookie. Nookie=Marblism=The love for such an incredibly beautiful animal when weighed against it's pricetag, as I feel when factoring in beauty compared to cost of animal, feeding and housing requirements Marbles are VERY tough to beat.

Thanks for the replies guys....

hey DB A ray is worth what you want to pay for it for that matter any fish so you did not over pay if you liked it and wanted it man!!!!!And as for genes and such with any fish also i am a believer that Ugly parents can have Beautiful Offspring Because i have seen it in humans man The mom and dad ya look at them all ya can say is EEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH And their kids the cutest things ya ever seen !!!!!!

i paid $800 for my largest female 2 years ago.not something i've told many people about..until now..lol and she's really not all that purdy.
and for the record, i love marbles too just not quite as much as blackies.when freinds come over, i am always asked why i waste my time with marbles when i have 3 black species breeding..obviously, it isn't for the money!

Nice Man!!!

 

[DB junkie]

You guys have some very intresting points.

There is no gaurentee of quality with rays, but we DO have what has been the norm and what we have seen and what has been rarely seen.

I urge you to try to find a pic of an ugly pup produced by Aquaman's pair of Marbles. They have been breeding for a while. Surely some of them have been at least average. Most people keeping rays usually take pics. Surely there's pics of super nice Marbles out there that came from average or below average or even ugly parents.

We're all learning here... Pics are great proof. We've had some good debates about max size, and pics tend to calm the questioning.

None of this is even touching base on other things that contribute to pattern either, all that is also subject to debate.

I think the whole breeding of rays thing is somewhat new in terms of what the future holds. No one knows. It sure seems like they keep getting nicer though doesn't it?

 

[DB junkie]

My point is that you will have better chances of having stunning pups if the parents are also stunning but there are no guarantees.

As far as price... maybe you should give us a taster of the quality you are talking about and post some pics of some rays and maybe you could get some feed back as to what people would pay for a ray like that? A picture is worth a thousand words.

Here you go....

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206316

Maybe not as nice as a Leo or Pearl but I sure like her.

I know what was offered for a ray like this.... The former owner turned down an acrylic 400 WITH a Leo in it.

 

[ShadowStryder]

That female is exceptional Al. I think lots of people though are looking to catch a marble like that for an average Marble price is the problem here. They don't want to pay black ray prices for a high end marble. What people have to remember is that they are paying better money for a CB healthy pup with lineage that can be traced back at least one generation if not more. No risk of parasites or other training issues of a wild caught ray.
I am not in this hobby to make money. Just for the pure joy of keeping, caring and experiencing these animals. As for as value each person has to decide what they are willing to pay, I swore I would never pay black prices years ago. But I did because I wanted some bad enough that price became irrelevant. To a certain point.

Here is a link provided to me by DW on genetics broken down to its simplest on The laws of inheritance derived by Gregor Mendel.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance

 

[LOPAKA]

I love marbles but we all have the BD itch !!!


one of my favorites . Well worth the investment.......... If I was to pay top doller it would have to be a ray very similar

 

[jcardona1]

I love marbles but we all have the BD itch !!!


one of my favorites . Well worth the investment.......... If I was to pay top doller it would have to be a ray very similar

That is still my favorite marble of all time!

 

[HULON]

WOW he's nice for sure....

 

[m_class2g]

for any fish. its how rare/how much ppl are willing to pay.

how much would one pay for this guy!? size 9-10 inches.

 

[DB junkie]

That is still my favorite marble of all time!

It should be if the going rate was almost double the top dollar you'd pay....

Different strokes for different folks. Some like big dots, some like lots of "sharpie".