120g FW Build, A big upgrade from my 10g!

[welsher7]

With using a 2x6 you have no need for a center brace.

Also if you plumb the system correctly and use anti-siphon holes on your return lines you don't need to worry handling a large amount of water when the pump is off.

 

[mudbuttjones]

There will be water from the plumbing and overflows even with a siphon break.

I'd make sure your sump can handle the volume worst case scenario.

I tested my 40 at 3/4" full. I think thats where I'll plan to leave it, another reason to use a big sump. Because your 55g is really going to be holding ~40gallons or so maybe less.

I know your hesitant about tall stands. Thats reasonable. My 90 is sitting on a 38-3/4" stand. With the tank its about 65" tall. I was worried how I was going to support it, like tie it into the studs in the wall. Now that its built I cannot shift it. Even with the tank dry its a total rock. It will not tip. Once you have your sump full of water and 1500lbs on top of the stand I highly doubt you could tip it short of hitting it with a car.



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[matseski]

Still thinking about the plumbing...

Herbie in one overflow, then for the other one, either

drain and return
standard drain and emergency drain, with return around the back

Obviously I need a drain to keep things circulating, but is there really any case where I would need 2 emergencies and 2 drains...seems like an awful low odds situation would need to arise.

While it seems nice to be able to keep all of my plumbing internal and run a return though the overflow, would the 1" bulkhead/plumbing limit my flow rate? 1" PVC is rated to 1000-1200gph, and given a head of 5-6', I can only expect 1050-1100 gph. Also, if I go with the internal return, I will only need 1 90deg bend instead of 2, so that may help as well. So, in theory should I still be getting the maximum flow rate with all 1" plumbing? Would save a bunch in fittings as well.

 

[welsher7]

There will be water from the plumbing and overflows even with a siphon break.

I'd make sure your sump can handle the volume worst case scenario........

You will always have water that drains back in to the sump, but you can limit the quantity by raising the stand pipes in the overflow. If your stand pipe is in the middle of the overflow you will drain half of your overflow when the pump is off, but if the stand pipe is at the top of the overflow it will drain very little in to the sump. Also if you keep your return lines along the surface and not under the surface you will limit how much water can siphon back to the sump.

When talking about how much you sump can handle with the pump off you have to consider how you sump is setup. Are you going to use baffles or run an open sump? How you place the baffles and the height of the baffles play a role in how much water a sump can hold.

 

[matseski]

I am planing a baffled sump. I guess the only benefit of lowering the stand pipe is to account for water evaporation, since everything else will stay at a constant level. In case I am out of town or busy with work, I will probably go about 6-8" below the overflow. So worst case scenario, I would have to deal with about 5 gallons (including 2 overflows and all plumbing, assuming 100% full of water). Also, assuming you dont put the baffles at the top of the tank, saw 1" below, the entire volume of the sump represents how much water it can hold in the case of a pump failure and leaking bulkheads. So I am not too worried about it. I am designing the sump to operate at about 30g capacity.

 

[welsher7]

Evaporation won't have any effect on the standpipe in the overflow. The amount of water in the overflow and display should stay the same while the tank is operating. Evaporation will only be noticable in the sump, and if you are running a baffled sump you will only see evaporation in the return pump section of the sump.

 

[matseski]

Thinking about my sump design...I have seen 2 primary pump designs with a refugium.

Design 1: the refugium is in series with the filtration system, so the flow rate will be on the order of 1000gph through a 10ish gallon "tank"
Design 2: the refugium is separated form the filtration system with a T in the return line to give it some circulation.

Design 1 is the simplest and saves space as there is no need for a separate refugium section and it requires less plumbing retaining the maximum flow rate to the display tank. However, if you need to move fry or a fish to the refugium for a period of time, will that flow rate pose a problem? While it wont be a directional flow, there will be a lot of turbulence as the water flows from the 3 drains into the 10 gallon refugium/drain section. Any thoughts?

Here are my current plans (design 1)

 

[mudbuttjones]

It may be too turbulent, depends what you keep in there. Fry/juveniles or adult fish?

PerhapdsTry to make a "dead zone" like put an extra baffle in that is opposite the flow of the sump. Maybe to the left of the drains. I dunno. That setup looks badass though man.

Are you planning on using filter socks?


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[matseski]

I'm not really aiming to breed anything, but things happen...I suspect I will mainly use it if I have a fish that is getting picked at and needs a break. I thought about putting an baffle in about 2" off the back but that will make the refugium much smaller, making it fairly useless for any fish over an inch or 2. Similarly, if I make it a separate section, I really start to cut into the filtering options I have, such as if I need to add a carbon section. Not sure about filter socks yet. May start out with a foam block in between the first 2 baffles so it will be really easy to clean. If it clogs too fast, I will try socks. I'm not really sure if my baffles are appropriately spaced and if I gave myself enough room for the various stages, so I may be able to gain some space that way.

From left to right:
refugium: 15.5" (bottom), 18" (top)
baffle 1-2: 2"
baffle 2-3: 2"
baffle 3-4 (K1) 5"
baffle 4-5 (heaters) 4"
drip plate: 10.75"
return section: 6"

If I put the 3 drains in a line perpendicular to the length of the sump and use filter socks, I think I could get rid of the first baffle, and add a baffle to the left to form a refugium (11x12x16 lxwxh). Would I have to worry about not getting enough circulation? I have the HOB filter I am currently using with my 10G that I suppose I could use if there were any inhabitants. Or maybe just run an air tube?

 

[matseski]

A second sump/plumbing configuration. In hopes of eliminating 1000gph of haphazard flow in the refugium, here is an alternative plan. Thoughts? Better? Worse?



The other option would be to put the refugium at the end of the line, but I would need to have a T in the return line so water will overflow back into the return section. Is it worth the added complication in the return line or not for a very calm refugium?

Another question. If the pump turns off, will the water in the tube drain through the pump or do I need a T anyways with a valve to drain it?