Breeding

[DiXoN]

what an absolute load of bollocks this thread is with people spouting with no evidence to back it up apart from a few pictures of small fish.

heres a few pointers for people to consider.

1 why if farm/hormone bred are they only available in the wild population breeding season every year.
2 every year loads of IT are for sale, this year is not that much different and the same goes for NTT. both of which are abundant in the wild (at the moment).
3 the difference between ST and IT is not that much so if they are breeding IT,NTT etc then ST would be bred also.
4 why if they are cross bred as mentioned in this thread ffs, would they not mention this when for sale as they would be the next big thing. anyway the 3 bar indos are usually from sumatra.

also this ''well there no proof they are farm bred'', ''well they is no proof they are wild caught'' crap is exactly that crap!, their is more chance they are wild caught than farm bred.

if people think i'm being a dick about this then so be it but missinformation like this gets on my tits no end.

i have no proof to say they are not farm bred but until there is proof anyone going round saying they are is spreading rumour and to put it bluntly bullcrap.

 

[classic-chassis]

what an absolute load of bollocks this thread is with people spouting with no evidence to back it up apart from a few pictures of small fish.

heres a few pointers for people to consider.

1 why if farm/hormone bred are they only available in the wild population breeding season every year.
2 every year loads of IT are for sale, this year is not that much different and the same goes for NTT. both of which are abundant in the wild (at the moment).
3 the difference between ST and IT is not that much so if they are breeding IT,NTT etc then ST would be bred also.
4 why if they are cross bred as mentioned in this thread ffs, would they not mention this when for sale as they would be the next big thing. anyway the 3 bar indos are usually from sumatra.

also this ''well there no proof they are farm bred'', ''well they is no proof they are wild caught'' crap is exactly that crap!, their is more chance they are wild caught than farm bred.

if people think i'm being a dick about this then so be it but missinformation like this gets on my tits no end.

i have no proof to say they are not farm bred but until there is proof anyone going round saying they are is spreading rumour and to put it bluntly bullcrap.

As i said Dixon, i did not go to Chatuchak market or start this thread to prove anything, I'm just interested.
Speaking for myself, I know how many fish i saw and the size of them. I know that every shop told me farm bread. I know the thai guy that got flamed on the link thread wrote "dats only breed once a year." and also indecated ITs were easier to breed than STs however the fishery dept here in BKK did have a program underway. I have no proof to doubt that information, Do you?
Again speaking for myself, I don't think you being a dick either. Maybe jumping the gun a tad though. Misinformation needs to be incorrect, that would mean you are calling me a lair based on what i saw or was told, and the shop owners lairs for misinforming me. Somehow i think that's not what you mean.
I would say the opinions on the thread are speculation not misinformation.
Exactly the same as your speculation on the difficulty of breeding different species of DAT. or the speculation you're making about them being wild caught, as you wrote you have not proof. In addition, everyone is entitled to opinion.
In your opinion, how do, between 500 (conservative) to a 1000 (realistic) tiny fish make it to one location in Bangkok from Sumatra? There is another market with fish the same as Chatuchak, they will be selling the same fish. Thats only 2 locations, Are you telling me the Sumatran fisher men are trawling the rivers yearly?
I'm not trying to get a rise out of you, i honestly interested in your opinion of how this happens.
I know nothing about cross breeding and don't claim this is happening, all i have wrote is what i have been told and seen.

 

[nomad]

what an absolute load of bollocks this thread is with people spouting with no evidence to back it up apart from a few pictures of small fish.

.....well said ....this thread should be closed for being a waste of time.

 

[classic-chassis]

Nomad, does every discussion between adults need to be backed up with concrete proof of everything said? Are people not allowed to give opinions to each other unless backed put with solid evidence?

 

[emartin]

There is no proof of any dats being farmed in captivity. Period.

This isn't my field, but there's no proof that they AREN'T being farmed in captivity...

Hell, there's farms around the world that apparently breed Arapaima gigas... How do you explain that? Don't say that they are all wildcaught juveniles... Supposedly from what I've read there's a market out there for their meat so naturally they would hormone them.

Hell, here in the USA they hormone farm tilapia so much to make them sterile so they can't breed in their growout ponds/canals or wherever it is they stock them... (ie, unless you want a blast of estrogen or testosterone...don't eat market farm raised tilapia as your staple fish diet unless it is organic)...

The industry sure does do weird things to fish...

 

[emartin]

.....well said ....this thread should be closed for being a waste of time.

Why is it so hard to believe that given the popularity of Datnioides sp. worldwide that some of the major fish farms and wholesalers globally are breeding them, naturally or unnaturally?

Hell, the Rose Line Shark fish is now being mass bred in Singapore if I remember correctly and I know a highly reputable importer that is bringing them in over wild labeled ones since he knows they are captive bred and met the owners of the facility. He's a conservationist and doesn't want to contribute to the demise of wild populations.

That's why people were so freaked when the Celestial Pearl Danio was discovered to be real....people were afraid that this little fish apparently endemic to one location would be made extinct in the wild (not sure if it is endangered, but given that they readily breed in captivity I doubt they are).

You can get farm bred and raised Arapaima gigas...

Still, EVEN IF THEY DO hormone inject datnioides to get them to breed for them in larger numbers (which would be easier than to keep collecting them, and better for the wild populations)....it's not like the captive bred ones are any different. That would be like suggesting that captive bred hormone injected true Synodontis petricola are mutants of nature just because they were given hormones to get them to breed since that species has never been bred naturally in captivity to my knowledge....

You guys are getting too worked up on this. Unless you plan on attempting to breed them yourselves naturally in a large tropical pond and replicate the wild conditions and wild diets, who the hell cares if they are actually wildcaught or captive bred?

It would be like suggesting that all the captive bred clown loaches are inferior and garbage compared to the original wildcaught imports... Granted there are a lot of deformed barred ones out there but the majority of them that I have come across are perfect...

Lastly... One thing that really ticked me off that you said was this thread should be closed for being "a waste of time". CLEARLY YOU FORGOT THAT THIS IS A FORUM!!!??? This is not the legislative debate floor. This is not a HR669 hearing. This is a FORUM... A place for conversation.

If you do not like a topic, DON'T READ IT. If you feel it is a waste of time, THEN DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME NOR OURS by not contributing educated discussion on these matters and bumping up the topic with crap posts like yours...

 

[nomad]

This isn't my field, but there's no proof that they AREN'T being farmed in captivity.....

no need to mention the first part .....its' pretty obvious
until someone can provide pictures from a dat breeding facility I'm maintaining the above statement in regard to this thread

 

[Fishes33]

no need to mention the first part .....its' pretty obvious
until someone can provide pictures from a dat breeding facility I'm maintaining the above statement in regard to this thread

Can anyone provide a Blood Parrot's Breeding facility picture???? If not, I still think Blood Parrots are wild caught!

or to put it in other words, have you ever seen Jesus??? or the people from 1600s 1700s 1800s 1900s 2000s seen him??? must be a fake right???

If not, is Christian a fake religion then???

LOL!!!!

 

[nomad]

Can anyone provide a Blood Parrot's Breeding facility picture???? If not, I still think Blood Parrots are wild caught!

or to put it in other words, have you ever seen Jesus??? or the people from 1600s 1700s 1800s 1900s 2000s seen him??? must be a fake right???

If not, is Christian a fake religion then???

LOL!!!!

 

[asm129]

Can anyone provide a Blood Parrot's Breeding facility picture???? If not, I still think Blood Parrots are wild caught!

or to put it in other words, have you ever seen Jesus??? or the people from 1600s 1700s 1800s 1900s 2000s seen him??? must be a fake right???

If not, is Christian a fake religion then???

LOL!!!!

He's got a point. Just because you don't see them being bred in farms doesn't mean it's not happening. And if people can believe in unseen gods and other really hard to believe things, why can't you believe something plausible like farms finding a way to breed dats? It's happened before with other fish thought to be incapable of captive breeding.

I don't know how it is in the UK, but in America, there were literally thousands of IT dats for sale last month. As I said before, the vendor I bought mine from ordered 1,000 of them and even lower end LFS had a few dozen IT's for sale. I've been fishkeeping for 15 years and never seen a flood of IT dats hit the market like that. You can ask any US MFK member here (esp. in SoCal) about dats in the market and they probably bought a few dozen IT's last month too. You can believe what you want, but the evidence points more towards them being captive bred than thousands of them being caught in the wild.