Okay ... So I just wanted to share a thought I had that is perhaps a spinoff of the 'Hybridizing Irresponsible' thread.
The captive breeding projects around the world can lead down two paths.. I am going to use Angelfish and Discus as an example.
When wild Angelfish first busted onto the scene, they instantly became a staple in the aquarium hobby. It did not take long for them to become easily bred within captivity, to the point where hobbyist could make a small fortune by setting up a dozen small tanks in their basement and producing angelfish. Sadly, no one really took the time to consider the issue of genetics and what would happen to the Angelfish in the long run.
Now, we have a market full of mutt-like Angelfish.. many with sporadic patterns, blotchy spots, broken bars, poor body structure, etc, etc. It is quite obvious that no one paid a special amount of attention to the genetics, and now most Angelfish are very poor quality in comparison to their wild counterparts (Scalare, Altum) ... However, the VALUE of a Wild-Caught Scalare/Altum has skyrocketed and true angelfish hobbyist know the rarity and value of these wild-caught fish.
on the otherside of the story is Discus..
When Discus first came around, they were notoriously hard to keep as they were very sensitive to new water parameters. After some time and effort people became educated on how to keep, spawn and even breed Discus in captivity. However, Discus had a much higher initial cost/value out of the wild then Angelfish, and much more care was taken into each individual specimen. The breeders really looked closely at selective breeding and introducing wild genetics to keep the strains healthy.
Now, we have a market full of colorful, vibrant, awe-inspiring Discus.. many with distinguished patterns, colorful spots, perfect bars, good body structure, etc, etc.. It was obvious that someone paid a special amount of attention to the genetics, and most captive bred Discus are much more beautiful in comparison to their wild counterparts.. However, the VALUE of Captive-Bred Discus has skyrocketed and true discus hobbyist know the rarity and value of a high quality strain of captive bred Discus..
So what's the point?
Captive Breeding of rays can head into 2 directions.. I believe it will have hints of each scenario.
I think Captive/Selective Breeding for coloration and pattern will eventually flood the market with dozens of wild new varieties with an increased value based on pattern and colors, just like Discus.. However, much like the value of Wild Scalare/Altum, the wild-caught Rays will uphold their value, mainly because of the ban from Brazil.
I think that Ray breeders will be much like Discus breeders in the thought that they will pay attention to genetics and breed rays based on coloration and pattern.. while only 'advanced' hobbyist will be doing most of the large-scale production breeding.. unlike Angelfish, that could be bred and hybridized by anyone.
Possibly, the longer the Ban is in place, the easier it will be to distinguish a pure ray from a captive bred ray. Much like how it is easy to tell a wild-caught Angelfish from a captive-bred Angelfish.
I also feel that rays' long gestation periods and maturation times in comparison to Discus/Angelfish will prolong any sort of genetics issues in the future. We will all be dead and gone before we start seeing the effects of 'guppy' type pool breeding, where we throw a bunch of rays together and watch them produce over and over.. they just take too long to reproduce.
I think rays are much more valued, like Discus.. then say, the value of Angelfish when they became popular. Fish that are less valued (ie: Angelfish, Guppies, Flowerhorns) will have less concerns and care to their genetics, and hobbyists will breed them freely and randomly. Rays have a higher monetary value, require a higher level of knowledge and care, and require any more resources to breed them in the same manner. Basically, low-scale Hobbyists won't be able to influence/ruin the market as much as they did with those lower-valued fish. Ray fanatics are a much more dedicated group of hobbyists, much like Discus keepers/breeders.
With all that being said.. I think that ray breeding will more-so take on the path of Discus breeding rather then Angelfish breeding. I see new variants being produced, with increased value to new variants/strains, but the market will eventually get watered down and older variants will come down in value. Hybrid rays can always make more Hybrid rays, but eventually we will run out of wild-caught rays. I see the wild-caught ones going up in value, much like wild Angelfish.
I don't see the genetics getting weak anytime soon. Rather, genetics become questionable.. Concerns with honest/valid genetics will be the main concern. The more generations away from the Ban, the more of an issue this will be. A certification/microchip program would be a good solution, but even wild-caught rays can have questionable genetics. The further out from the Ban, the more 'false' black rays will be put on the market, thus the rarity value of true wild-caught purebloods will skyrocket - proving that point will be the hard part.
So.. they aren't going to become like Angelfish, Guppies or Flowerhorns because of all this hybridization.. but more like the Discus culture.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
The captive breeding projects around the world can lead down two paths.. I am going to use Angelfish and Discus as an example.
When wild Angelfish first busted onto the scene, they instantly became a staple in the aquarium hobby. It did not take long for them to become easily bred within captivity, to the point where hobbyist could make a small fortune by setting up a dozen small tanks in their basement and producing angelfish. Sadly, no one really took the time to consider the issue of genetics and what would happen to the Angelfish in the long run.
Now, we have a market full of mutt-like Angelfish.. many with sporadic patterns, blotchy spots, broken bars, poor body structure, etc, etc. It is quite obvious that no one paid a special amount of attention to the genetics, and now most Angelfish are very poor quality in comparison to their wild counterparts (Scalare, Altum) ... However, the VALUE of a Wild-Caught Scalare/Altum has skyrocketed and true angelfish hobbyist know the rarity and value of these wild-caught fish.
on the otherside of the story is Discus..
When Discus first came around, they were notoriously hard to keep as they were very sensitive to new water parameters. After some time and effort people became educated on how to keep, spawn and even breed Discus in captivity. However, Discus had a much higher initial cost/value out of the wild then Angelfish, and much more care was taken into each individual specimen. The breeders really looked closely at selective breeding and introducing wild genetics to keep the strains healthy.
Now, we have a market full of colorful, vibrant, awe-inspiring Discus.. many with distinguished patterns, colorful spots, perfect bars, good body structure, etc, etc.. It was obvious that someone paid a special amount of attention to the genetics, and most captive bred Discus are much more beautiful in comparison to their wild counterparts.. However, the VALUE of Captive-Bred Discus has skyrocketed and true discus hobbyist know the rarity and value of a high quality strain of captive bred Discus..
So what's the point?
Captive Breeding of rays can head into 2 directions.. I believe it will have hints of each scenario.
I think Captive/Selective Breeding for coloration and pattern will eventually flood the market with dozens of wild new varieties with an increased value based on pattern and colors, just like Discus.. However, much like the value of Wild Scalare/Altum, the wild-caught Rays will uphold their value, mainly because of the ban from Brazil.
I think that Ray breeders will be much like Discus breeders in the thought that they will pay attention to genetics and breed rays based on coloration and pattern.. while only 'advanced' hobbyist will be doing most of the large-scale production breeding.. unlike Angelfish, that could be bred and hybridized by anyone.
Possibly, the longer the Ban is in place, the easier it will be to distinguish a pure ray from a captive bred ray. Much like how it is easy to tell a wild-caught Angelfish from a captive-bred Angelfish.
I also feel that rays' long gestation periods and maturation times in comparison to Discus/Angelfish will prolong any sort of genetics issues in the future. We will all be dead and gone before we start seeing the effects of 'guppy' type pool breeding, where we throw a bunch of rays together and watch them produce over and over.. they just take too long to reproduce.
I think rays are much more valued, like Discus.. then say, the value of Angelfish when they became popular. Fish that are less valued (ie: Angelfish, Guppies, Flowerhorns) will have less concerns and care to their genetics, and hobbyists will breed them freely and randomly. Rays have a higher monetary value, require a higher level of knowledge and care, and require any more resources to breed them in the same manner. Basically, low-scale Hobbyists won't be able to influence/ruin the market as much as they did with those lower-valued fish. Ray fanatics are a much more dedicated group of hobbyists, much like Discus keepers/breeders.
With all that being said.. I think that ray breeding will more-so take on the path of Discus breeding rather then Angelfish breeding. I see new variants being produced, with increased value to new variants/strains, but the market will eventually get watered down and older variants will come down in value. Hybrid rays can always make more Hybrid rays, but eventually we will run out of wild-caught rays. I see the wild-caught ones going up in value, much like wild Angelfish.
I don't see the genetics getting weak anytime soon. Rather, genetics become questionable.. Concerns with honest/valid genetics will be the main concern. The more generations away from the Ban, the more of an issue this will be. A certification/microchip program would be a good solution, but even wild-caught rays can have questionable genetics. The further out from the Ban, the more 'false' black rays will be put on the market, thus the rarity value of true wild-caught purebloods will skyrocket - proving that point will be the hard part.
So.. they aren't going to become like Angelfish, Guppies or Flowerhorns because of all this hybridization.. but more like the Discus culture.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?