CREATING THE ULTIMATE FILTRATION AND EVOLVING WITH YOUR FISH!!!!!!

[jcardona1]

For those of you on closed loop systems, where and how are you pulling water into the tank? Has anybody incorporated a surface skimmer into a closed loop setup? We use the No-Niche Skimmer on our koi pond and it works great. You could use this on a large closed-loop tank also. The inner basket moves up and down as water levels fluctuate and you get nice 360-degree skimming.

Would be easy to drill a hole in the back of a tank and put this in a corner so you get surface skimming.

 

[tomomothy]

Just read this thread and I gotta say I think Jose has summed up my view pretty well. I will say not all methods of filtering are equal, some may work more quickly or take up less space etc etc, but like you said, if your ammonia and nitrites are 0, and your water is clear, you probably have enough filtration.

Making your own filter or coming up with new designs is fun to tinker with though, and as long as your fish are happy, more power to you.

 

[HULON]

Yup. The concept of bio filtration is the same no matter the system; take water out of the tank, pass it through some gizmo gadgets that are growing bacteria and then return it to the tank. Repeat

But I think money does play a factor. Some of the pressurized filters can get pricey. Of course it depends on how many bells and whistles you wanna add.

The tub you're using is basically a sump too About them being dirty, that all depends on how you set them up. Pre-filtering is key. Ever since I started using 50 micron of finer filter socks my sumps have been spotless. Even the sump in my 400g tank when it was full of pbass. The source of sump crud is the incoming water from the tank. If you pre-filter it properly and stay up on the regular maintenance, it won't get dirty. But if you slack on it, you'll see the difference. There's been a few times when I lagged on changing my filter socks and just let them keep overflowing into the sump. That's when the crud starts to accumulate.

And yes, it's all about options and alternatives. Like I said, we're spoiled these days

As my title says my system has evolved with my fish when i have needed more i plan and get it my tank started with one pump and now has three ...

For those of you on closed loop systems, where and how are you pulling water into the tank? Has anybody incorporated a surface skimmer into a closed loop setup? We use the No-Niche Skimmer on our koi pond and it works great. You could use this on a large closed-loop tank also. The inner basket moves up and down as water levels fluctuate and you get nice 360-degree skimming.

Would be easy to drill a hole in the back of a tank and put this in a corner so you get surface skimming.

Ya i have seen them i bought my tank used and it has overflows that take care of th protien my closed loop part of the system i drilled the tank 6 inches from the bottom for the drain the return at the same hight ....Those baskets are more for leaves and such and also a weir for different water levels due to evap!!!!

Just read this thread and I gotta say I think Jose has summed up my view pretty well. I will say not all methods of filtering are equal, some may work more quickly or take up less space etc etc, but like you said, if your ammonia and nitrites are 0, and your water is clear, you probably have enough filtration.

Making your own filter or coming up with new designs is fun to tinker with though, and as long as your fish are happy, more power to you.

 

[DB junkie]

I disagree with a filter is a filter.

While "fish" may be messy, rays are messier. The eat more, their crap is different, it's much harder on the filter.

Run a "typical" filter, and just like mentioned, disease WILL take hold. You might be able to hold it off for 3 months, maybe half a year, maybe you only deal with it once a year but any system with a bunch of rays has just a matter of time before you have issues. How well your system is designed, combined with maintainance regimen will determine how long you can hold off issues.

How do I know this? Cause I've been designing my own filters for years trying to improve with every revamp. It's not easy, as my water is crap compared to most of yours here. PH is 8.8+. With enough work I can get my rays to carry on like everyone else's but it's more difficult since I believe the water alone adds stress that the same animals may not have if kept somewhere with better water to start with.

IF I kept only "fish" I'd toss some bags of rings in the sump and call it a day. But instead I have to prepare for the mess of feeding these things what I expect will be up to a 4lb daily feeding. Typical sumps aren't gonna much care for that.....

I still think that a vortex chamber, to socks, to moving bed would be the "ideal" setup.

 

[ecoli73]

would love to see what you have DB.

 

[jcardona1]

Run a "typical" filter, and just like mentioned, disease WILL take hold.

I challenge that statement. I don't think it's correct to say that. All filters serve the same basic functions:

1. Remove debris
2. Remove ammonia
3. Remove nitrites

Diseases aren't caused by a "typical filter" as you say. If a filter is keeping ammonia and nitrite at 0, then the filter is not your source of disease or problems. It's lack of maintenance or other water quality issues (parasites, water source, etc). These have nothing to do with the filtration.

But if your system is having trouble keeping ammonia/nitrite at 0 then yes, there is something up with your filtration.

 

[jcardona1]

Ya i have seen them i bought my tank used and it has overflows that take care of th protien my closed loop part of the system i drilled the tank 6 inches from the bottom for the drain the return at the same hight ....Those baskets are more for leaves and such and also a weir for different water levels due to evap!!!!

Yeah that's what I meant, use them for skimming in a completely closed loop system. Yours is different because have both open and closed loop. I don't think you could use an standard built-in overflow box in a closed system. Too much room for the system to swallow air.

 

[DB junkie]

I challenge that statement. I don't think it's correct to say that. All filters serve the same basic functions:

1. Remove debris
2. Remove ammonia
3. Remove nitrites

Diseases aren't caused by a "typical filter" as you say. If a filter is keeping ammonia and nitrite at 0, then the filter is not your source of disease or problems. It's lack of maintenance or other water quality issues (parasites, water source, etc). These have nothing to do with the filtration.

But if your system is having trouble keeping ammonia/nitrite at 0 then yes, there is something up with your filtration.

I respectfully disagree. Yes a filter does those things IF it does the 1st one poorly then you will have problems.

Keep rays. You'll find it's simple to achieve your 0 Ammo, 0 Nitrite, with a filter that's so chock full of crap that all of a sudden the bad stuff is being harbored in the bio. Most people find that when the rays get sick cleaning the filter can often fix the problem. IF it does then I'm on board with the idea that the filter could be designed better, cause IF it is then it's MUCH less likely that it will fall prey to procrastination in the maintainance dept.

Technically you may be right, but in the world of happy rays, I am....

The filter must do those 3 things but without it doing that 1st thing properly and efficiently it can still be a working, poorly designed ticking timebomb.

Nobody seems to have been able to explain exactly what's going on in this scenario. If you can, please do, but all I know is it happens and when it does it takes rays.

 

[jcardona1]

IF it does the 1st one poorly then you will have problems [...] with a filter that's so chock full of crap that all of a sudden the bad stuff is being harbored in the bio.

I think we're saying the same thing The issue with any type of system is adequate pre-filtering and regular maintenance to keep it clean. Because as you say, if you let it turn into a sewage fest, that's when the problems start.

A settling chamber would be neat. But that seems to be only feasible on very large systems. Not your average indoor tank.

 

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

I disagree with a filter is a filter.

While "fish" may be messy, rays are messier. The eat more, their crap is different, it's much harder on the filter.

Run a "typical" filter, and just like mentioned, disease WILL take hold. You might be able to hold it off for 3 months, maybe half a year, maybe you only deal with it once a year but any system with a bunch of rays has just a matter of time before you have issues. How well your system is designed, combined with maintainance regimen will determine how long you can hold off issues.

How do I know this? Cause I've been designing my own filters for years trying to improve with every revamp. It's not easy, as my water is crap compared to most of yours here. PH is 8.8+. With enough work I can get my rays to carry on like everyone else's but it's more difficult since I believe the water alone adds stress that the same animals may not have if kept somewhere with better water to start with.

IF I kept only "fish" I'd toss some bags of rings in the sump and call it a day. But instead I have to prepare for the mess of feeding these things what I expect will be up to a 4lb daily feeding. Typical sumps aren't gonna much care for that.....

I still think that a vortex chamber, to socks, to moving bed would be the "ideal" setup.

You are 110% correct on this. When I had all those rays, I think 6 or 7 in my 500, I had 3 Emperor 400's, 3 FX5s and 1 Marineland 360, even that wasnt enough for the rays. The water was always brown and had a bad smell to it. If I did a water change Monday, by Wednesday or Thursday the water was back to brown and smelly. I was doing water changes every single day till I sold them, I had one die on me. I also had fish in with the rays to add on top of the waste.

I'm hoping that with this new filter I have I wont see these problems I did in the past. I will only have 2 rays, possibly 3 but most likely 2 and a few pbass.