General Stingray Price List

[Pazzoman]

Had a feeling it was gonna be difficult...guess this thread can drown lmao. Thanks to all whobposted tho about the background od the pricing of these rays. Thanks vamp trev for the most precise, as i do know your one o the well known breeders here of leos.

Thanks again! Also by any chance anyone know where to possibly get cb retics? Ive just never seen them...maybe im not looking hard enough


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[ICHIBAN TROPICAL FISH]

Here this is how i feel for breeder and importer , in order to set the price for stingray markets is hard , the beauty of this species is a spot and heart with passion of hobby

Breeder job is hard working and try to produce a nice batch of quality ray ,it take so much time care and foods . stingray is not easy to take care like other species , what if someone try to pay for a nice quality ray for a cheap price then turn arounds dont know how to take care it or care less and kill it , because they know it cheap so they can get other one easy , if you guy feel the price is high try to get a low quality first before get other high ends stuff , markets ray in US is already cheap . Remember you guy spend $100 for motoro ray pup is cheap but the foods cost could be up to $1000 ,

Importer job try to get a nice ray and cheaper possible , take time talk with breeder able to work out the deal ,also take risk to transship those in US , money put out the pockets but who willing to guarantee is safe and able to make profit or not , and price is try to be fair for breeder , for example $1200 reg each bd at cost + freight , wild life custom fee , how much you guy think importer should list the they price able to make profit for live? make $50 or $500 ? remember stock foods and care and ship back out for customer with a live DOA guarantee .


over all if you guy feel we set the price for ray too high then dont buy it just find some other species and enjoy it ,

thank you for who ever read this and sorry for my broken english

jojo

 

[sbuse]

Well said Jojo. As I have stated before many times. Imported and wild rays would need the higher price tag to accommodate that. As a buyer we are expecting to pay for those fees and the different genes via WC or line bred for pattern over seas.

With all that on the other foot. For in country bred fish, rays in this case, they should be cheaper then imported since there is no wildlife certificates, import shipping, "out of pocket" risk, broker fees, negotiations time or any of that. There is food costs and things like that but local in country bred should be significantly lower in cost to allow for that.

The only down fall to this is that once there are several local breeders the demand for import drops and the internal genes falls. Importers try to compete but can't with local bred costs, so they stop importing them. This intern pushes people to raise local bred fish costs to get more out of the fish since "x" importer has/had similar quality/patterned fish that sold for a higher price.

Having/ continuing to breed fish, deal direct with importers, deal with local breeders and then sell fish for my store. I see all sides of it. It gets things really hard to sort out and is directly responsible for the wide range of prices. While the demand for high patterned rays goes up, the wholesalers/breeders see this and raise their prices to importers here. Only driving up the costs to import and out of pocket risk. That pushes people to go for the cb fish and feed the inflation on them. It becomes a vicious cycle. The only reason why the market crashed on black rays is that everyone here state side is dealing with the value of the dollar going down, cost of living going up and the overall recession the states are in. The importers have no choice but to take a smaller margin on them. Very soon if things continue the way they are importers will stop importing them. So many out of the hobby threads are just proving my point, people are just not able to afford to maintain the fish much less buy them. Once we rebound back out you'll see a huge change in the prices, now is the time to buy if you can.

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[STINGRAYED]

Well said Jojo. As I have stated before many times. Imported and wild rays would need the higher price tag to accommodate that. As a buyer we are expecting to pay for those fees and the different genes via WC or line bred for pattern over seas.

With all that on the other foot. For in country bred fish, rays in this case, they should be cheaper then imported since there is no wildlife certificates, import shipping, "out of pocket" risk, broker fees, negotiations time or any of that. There is food costs and things like that but local in country bred should be significantly lower in cost to allow for that.

The only down fall to this is that once there are several local breeders the demand for import drops and the internal genes falls. Importers try to compete but can't with local bred costs, so they stop importing them. This intern pushes people to raise local bred fish costs to get more out of the fish since "x" importer has/had similar quality/patterned fish that sold for a higher price.

Having/ continuing to breed fish, deal direct with importers, deal with local breeders and then sell fish for my store. I see all sides of it. It gets things really hard to sort out and is directly responsible for the wide range of prices. While the demand for high patterned rays goes up, the wholesalers/breeders see this and raise their prices to importers here. Only driving up the costs to import and out of pocket risk. That pushes people to go for the cb fish and feed the inflation on them. It becomes a vicious cycle. The only reason why the market crashed on black rays is that everyone here state side is dealing with the value of the dollar going down, cost of living going up and the overall recession the states are in. The importers have no choice but to take a smaller margin on them. Very soon if things continue the way they are importers will stop importing them. So many out of the hobby threads are just proving my point, people are just not able to afford to maintain the fish much less buy them. Once we rebound back out you'll see a huge change in the prices, now is the time to buy if you can.

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I don't wish to offend but saying that captive bred fish should be cheaper is a statement i think is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off especially for Rays Sbuse take a minute and think about what you are saying !!!!!! After a guy has spent $10000 plus to House Said Rays PROPERLY !!!!! Then you find a reputable vender spend a year or so looking and spending a good chunk of change on the wild caught stock that have the patterns and color you like and think might be marketable Now you have to pair them off and possably take a year or so to actually get them breediing on a regular basis all the while spending $100 dollers Plus +++++++a week feeding the group that you think mind think people will like and purchase !!!!Having no real knowlege that your product will even be marketable ...Now granted the Hobby is just that a Hobby But come on Man If anything you should be able to ask the same if not more then wild caught Knowing you can offer a (clean ) disease free better looking fish that readilly takes dry foods and is much more Hardy then a wild fish that is just my personal opinion Had to throw my 2 cents out there just sayin LOL!!!!

 

[sbuse]

I don't wish to offend but saying that captive bred fish should be cheaper is a statement i think is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off especially for Rays Sbuse take a minute and think about what you are saying !!!!!! After a guy has spent $10000 plus to House Said Rays PROPERLY !!!!! Then you find a reputable vender spend a year or so looking and spending a good chunk of change on the wild caught stock that have the patterns and color you like and think might be marketable Now you have to pair them off and possably take a year or so to actually get them breediing on a regular basis all the while spending $100 dollers Plus +++++++a week feeding the group that you think mind think people will like and purchase !!!!Having no real knowlege that your product will even be marketable ...Now granted the Hobby is just that a Hobby But come on Man If anything you should be able to ask the same if not more then wild caught Knowing you can offer a (clean ) disease free better looking fish that readilly takes dry foods and is much more Hardy then a wild fish that is just my personal opinion Had to throw my 2 cents out there just sayin LOL!!!!

No offense taken. I know what your saying, but I think you miss understood my saying. I did say that "imported rays should cost more" that includes wilds and cabtive bred rays from other countries. That is why I had the clarification "local country bred rays". Now as a future breeder of several ray species and a past breeder of other fish I know that costs involved. The costs are far less then the costs to import. The rays being imported have all those costs plus all the fees. There for the price should reflect that. Now a wild or imported ray of similar pattern should cost more then a local country cb fish of similar pattern.

Example. A ray that if found here would go for $300-500 depending on size and sex. This ray just got imported as a pair with another ray. That ray cost $450 in the country of origin. Now after health certificate, shipping, and broker fees that ray has become a $750 ray. No profit. This is an actual ray import that presently happened. Only 2 rays fit in the box at that size. That is a captive bred fish from another country. Now if I bred that ray I couldn't justify selling it at that price. It would be more like $400 for it at that size.

To properly build a breeding facility without spending to much you just need a group of 2m/3f or 3m/3f. With that group you can make tons of lines and end up with any # m/any # f you can want. Would it take a few years yes. Point is in the end you can be large scale producing pups in a few years. Then the overall cost per pup is lower so the price should reflect that. That is for a large scale breeder in country.

Rays are one of few fish that have this problem. A big part of it is due to breeders and wholesalers. They want to make more money off females if they even let females out. The market is flooded with males and very few females. It is done this way so they can expand while keeping the monopoly on it. Most other fish there isnt a price difference in males and females like rays. That also shouldn't exist.

Well like I said not offended. That is more expansion on my opinion and how I am going to run my breeding. When I have my breeding you'll see same prices for male and females and they will be cheaper. That is what I believe it should be so I'll be running it that way. The overall costs to run and start up will be erased by the pups. If you have higher prices it will be tuff to sell the fish. Rays have a smaller market then say cichlids so we in the market/hobby should be looking out for one another. Also the vendors that take the chance on importing. All it takes is one supplier to send out bad fish and it could destroy a vendor. If not just the rep but on the bank side as well.

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[DB junkie]

Looks great on paper......

Paper and reality are 2 different things. How many people over the years have sunk thousands into breeding rays and were successful?

Definitely not as easy as it seems. Not that I would know or anything.

Many of us know CB have much less risk of loosing, there's no transition period, usually are higher quality, less gamble - demand a higher price.

Often seems the "hobbyists" and the "Business" people disagree.

 

[sbuse]

Looks great on paper......

Paper and reality are 2 different things. How many people over the years have sunk thousands into breeding rays and were successful?

Definitely not as easy as it seems. Not that I would know or anything.

Many of us know CB have much less risk of loosing, there's no transition period, usually are higher quality, less gamble - demand a higher price.

Often seems the "hobbyists" and the "Business" people disagree.

I never said it was easy. I was saying that if one is to go for it that is the way to have the best chance.

Like I have said several times I think WC should cost more then cb. Yes you get stronger fish to start, but in the long run new genetics should cost more since they are harder to get.

As a hobbiest and a business man I am looking at the compromise that needs to happen. Otherwise a lot of the fish will fade out due to the current economic situation of this country.

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[DB junkie]

It all boils down to quality. Ray keepers want nice rays. Ray breeders want new genes. Most hobbyists aren't going to pay more for a WC unless it looks better.

The hobbyist shouldn't pay more cause everyone down the line needs to make their little slice of cheese. Every time the ray changes hands the price goes up.

Like I said it boils down to which side of the fence you're on, but hey if you want to give away your CB pups for less then WC go ahead, but with WC prices on the decline at a certain point you reach the "pointless" point where it become a justifiable money pit that never goes the way it should on paper.

 

[sbuse]

It all boils down to quality. Ray keepers want nice rays. Ray breeders want new genes. Most hobbyists aren't going to pay more for a WC unless it looks better.

The hobbyist shouldn't pay more cause everyone down the line needs to make their little slice of cheese. Every time the ray changes hands the price goes up.

Like I said it boils down to which side of the fence you're on, but hey if you want to give away your CB pups for less then WC go ahead, but with WC prices on the decline at a certain point you reach the "pointless" point where it become a justifiable money pit that never goes the way it should on paper.

I agree that a ray doesn't increase in value like everyone does with them. Rays seem to change hands a lot. They shouldn't increase in price for each person like they do. Most people try to make back the shipping for each time they sell a ray. Shipping is something that should get placed into the cost to have the fish and not be placed on the top of the ray prices.

I agree that the hobbiest aren't gonna pay extra for wild caught. That will take the pressure off the wild populations and anyone wanting to get new genetics then they get a higher wild caught price. Regardless of pattern I believe WC should be more then cb for stated reasons.

If the trend continues it will become pointless. If we as the general hobbiests that keep rays as a very large portion of the main ray keepers are on this site. Were to take a chance like this and try to change the way it is done. We can reach that layout and make the mass wholesalers adapt to the way it needs to be it will work out.

Chances are it will just continue to go the way it is because everyone has come to expect higher prices for nice patterned rays. Quality of the genetics isn't as big of a factor in good patterns. I have seen some of the nicest looking rays come from mutts and are extra mutty themselves. The price on those rays is much lower then the price of "pure bloods"

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[tampa_bass]

another problem is ray keepers want rays and most will pay whatever they think is fair no matter how steep.. want 100-300 leos or 50.00 motoros? get everyone to stop buying until prices come down.. it's all about supply and demand but, some importers set the prices at market rates even though they may have got them alot cheaper..