Help ID these Gar fry

[E_americanus]

so basically it comes back to the fact that all juvi gar look very similar. cuz i looked at the pic before i read your quote and thought it was a F/S. so do you know how often shortnoses show up in pet trade? cuz i would really love to raise one. one of about 5 or 6" would be great.

they all look alike to some degree, but there are some ways of telling them apart...and some of that is just experience with a lot of individual fishes over time, as well as noting patterns. that being said, we still frequently have to wait for a juvenile gar that just pops up in a post in a thread in a forum to develop a bit further since we can't inspect the fish ourselves in person.

as for shortnoses in the pet trade, they are usually available each season, but generally a bit later in the summer. they will look like longnose gars with shorter snouts for the most part, without the distinctive spotting seen on florida/spotted gars. keep in mind that shortnose gars are generally no picnic, and have a higher propensity for breaking their backs than most other species of gars.--
--solomon

 

[city_of_evil6661]

they all look alike to some degree, but there are some ways of telling them apart...and some of that is just experience with a lot of individual fishes over time, as well as noting patterns. that being said, we still frequently have to wait for a juvenile gar that just pops up in a post in a thread in a forum to develop a bit further since we can't inspect the fish ourselves in person.

as for shortnoses in the pet trade, they are usually available each season, but generally a bit later in the summer. they will look like longnose gars with shorter snouts for the most part, without the distinctive spotting seen on florida/spotted gars. keep in mind that shortnose gars are generally no picnic, and have a higher propensity for breaking their backs than most other species of gars.--
--solomon

thats true.

since im in GA would now be a good time to start looking for one? and i believe i can prevent broken back. cuz when my fiance caught her first juvi longnose i made the mistake of putting a 1 and a half fish in a 10g and when i sat down on our bed to chech on i spooked him and he shot across the tank and broke his back. and when she caught the one she has now i put him in a fish bowl to prevent what happened to the other one and it worked. the fish was 1 and a half inches at the beginning of summer and is now almost 6". i thought it was longnose that had the bad reputation for breaking their back than any other species.

 

[E_americanus]

thats true.

since im in GA would now be a good time to start looking for one? and i believe i can prevent broken back. cuz when my fiance caught her first juvi longnose i made the mistake of putting a 1 and a half fish in a 10g and when i sat down on our bed to chech on i spooked him and he shot across the tank and broke his back. and when she caught the one she has now i put him in a fish bowl to prevent what happened to the other one and it worked. the fish was 1 and a half inches at the beginning of summer and is now almost 6". i thought it was longnose that had the bad reputation for breaking their back than any other species.

there is no way to 100% prevent a broken back...it can technically happen to any gar at any stage of its life. with shortnoses, they are more prone to 'fast-starts' than a lot of the other species and they are more skittish as well...this goes from when they are very small juveniles all the way up until they are adults...so keeping them in a fish bowl when young may help when they are just a couple inches long, but the skittishness issue persists throughout their lives.
in my experience, and i would imagine richard would agree, longnoses are second to shortnoses in terms of percentage of the broken back phenomenon...although i've seen it in everything from crocodile gars to tropicals and just about ever species in between.
if you see a shortnose at an LFS, feel free to take your shot at it, just be wary of the risks with keeping that species. oh yeah, they tend to be pretty aggressive as far as Lepisosteus genus gars go as well--
--solomon

 

[Polypterus]

Shortnosed are semi psychopathic fish with a multiple personality disorder. I think I've tried at least 30 different methods of husbandry with them and still lose at least one a year of all different age classes. They are very unpredictable fish and a very challenging species for long term management.

As Solomon said these fish are very prone to fast starts and they have the body type, behavior and musculature to damage themselves very easily. They are by far the worst case fish when it comes to breaking their backs or inflicting other forms of self injury. This physical structure (Slim body shape Short broad snout, Small head thick well muscled posterior trunk, broad caudal punducle combined with large Dorsal, anal Ventral and Caudal fins) combined with their inherent skittish and unpredictable behavior is a time bomb in typical aquaria conditions.

Longnosed are a second at this but one thing that does work for them is a stable behavior pattern and that long nose actually will absorb some punishment before it echoes to the backbone.

That said it is not a reason to not try them should you run across one. If in an LFS it is doomed anyhow so a good experimental fish to test your luck, patience and gar husbandry techniques. That and really there are few that have kept them long term and even fewer that have kept them and documented them. Key word here is document.. Go beyond anecdotal and do keep records on them and how you are keeping them. Keep a log on them.... Success as well as failure is good info...

 

[city_of_evil6661]

there is no way to 100% prevent a broken back...it can technically happen to any gar at any stage of its life. with shortnoses, they are more prone to 'fast-starts' than a lot of the other species and they are more skittish as well...this goes from when they are very small juveniles all the way up until they are adults...so keeping them in a fish bowl when young may help when they are just a couple inches long, but the skittishness issue persists throughout their lives.
in my experience, and i would imagine richard would agree, longnoses are second to shortnoses in terms of percentage of the broken back phenomenon...although i've seen it in everything from crocodile gars to tropicals and just about ever species in between.
if you see a shortnose at an LFS, feel free to take your shot at it, just be wary of the risks with keeping that species. oh yeah, they tend to be pretty aggressive as far as Lepisosteus genus gars go as well--
--solomon

thanks for informing me about the shortnoses bad habits. if i ever happen to come across one i will try my luck and maybe i will raise it with no problems.

 

[city_of_evil6661]

Shortnosed are semi psychopathic fish with a multiple personality disorder. I think I've tried at least 30 different methods of husbandry with them and still lose at least one a year of all different age classes. They are very unpredictable fish and a very challenging species for long term management.

As Solomon said these fish are very prone to fast starts and they have the body type, behavior and musculature to damage themselves very easily. They are by far the worst case fish when it comes to breaking their backs or inflicting other forms of self injury. This physical structure (Slim body shape Short broad snout, Small head thick well muscled posterior trunk, broad caudal punducle combined with large Dorsal, anal Ventral and Caudal fins) combined with their inherent skittish and unpredictable behavior is a time bomb in typical aquaria conditions.

Longnosed are a second at this but one thing that does work for them is a stable behavior pattern and that long nose actually will absorb some punishment before it echoes to the backbone.

That said it is not a reason to not try them should you run across one. If in an LFS it is doomed anyhow so a good experimental fish to test your luck, patience and gar husbandry techniques. That and really there are few that have kept them long term and even fewer that have kept them and documented them. Key word here is document.. Go beyond anecdotal and do keep records on them and how you are keeping them. Keep a log on them.... Success as well as failure is good info...

as i said before, if i run across one i will try my luck. and if it happens i will post it and keep it updated.

 

[03ltrain]

Here are some new pictures that I took today.

 

[Polypterus]

I'm leaning even more toward Shortnosed for an ID on those fish but they could very well still be Spotted (I have some known spotteds that looked like this with a pale pattern and coloration similar to a Juvenile short).. Longnosed is a No and Gator is a NO (in big capital letters) Leaving only Spotted and Shortnosed for the locality..

Good luck with them and keep the updates coming.

 

[E_americanus]

I'm leaning even more toward Shortnosed for an ID on those fish but they could very well still be Spotted (I have some known spotteds that looked like this with a pale pattern and coloration similar to a Juvenile short).. Longnosed is a No and Gator is a NO (in big capital letters) Leaving only Spotted and Shortnosed for the locality..

Good luck with them and keep the updates coming.

yup, definitely agree on the shortnose/spotted options...these guys may take another week or two before it will become clear...crazy fishes!--
--solomon

ps-- nice job on maintaining them; thanks for the updates!

 

[city_of_evil6661]

nice gars. now i am thinking shortnose.