How Important Is Bio Media?

[tcarswell]

The ammonia went away in 2 days ! Just a little prime for a few days and mini cycle over.

 

[tcarswell]

I’ve made my experiments and I’ve shared my results with the forum… 125 gal, heavily stocked, filtered by 2x AC 110s w/ sponge only as media… and a tier of three tanks (50 gal / 50 gal / 75 gal ) plumbed together, heavily stocked, filtered by 1x AC 110 and 1x 500 gph pump…

But naturally me sharing my results isn’t enough for everyone… which is why I said I was interested in seeing others perform their own tests and share their results…

And again… as a reminder… when any of use remove a portion of our system that is likely housing bacteria, we should expect a mini cycle (ammonia & nitrite spikes) since we removed bacteria from the system. This does not constitute a biological failure. Proper detoxification of these spikes via water changes or adding Prime or similar should be take for a period of time until the bacteria has time to reproduce to replace that which was removed.

My point is not that we can remove bacteria with no ill result, this is not true…

My point is that the vast majority of our systems have ample surface area to accommodate a sufficient amount of bacteria without Bio Media…




Since you reduced the bioload and the waste byproducts increased… there is obviously a detail being overlooked somewhere… I would have to question if the fish were being overfed and you weren’t being told about it…




I think this should be expected. You removed a portion of the bacteria when you removed the filter… now give the existing bacteria time to reproduce to replace it. Detoxify via water changes, Prime, etc… and my bets are within a weeks time your ammonia will be at zero with normal maintenance.

I found a place nearby with pure ammonia for sale ill set up a ten gallon and get it started tommorow

 

[Toby_H]

I found a place nearby with pure ammonia for sale ill set up a ten gallon and get it started tommorow

That's awesome... having a few people performing the same test will remove concerns of falifying information... and will also remove the potential of an unknown variable being the cause of results... as well as will perform the same 'test' using different water parameters (hardness, PH, etc)...

 

[tcarswell]

That's awesome... having a few people performing the same test will remove concerns of falifying information... and will also remove the potential of an unknown variable being the cause of results... as well as will perform the same 'test' using different water parameters (hardness, PH, etc)...

yup I dont know about your water but mines ROCK hard
PH 8.3

 

[hybridtheoryd16]

i have to agree that simple sponge filters are more than capable at taking care of bio-filtration. case in point is discus hans setup. the discus is reportedly a very difficult fish to keep & requires very clean water. if you look at hans's filtration setup, all he uses is water dripping on a sponge.

And with these discus breeding set ups the ph levels are very low. Once you go below around 5ph you don't need biological filtration. Because there will be no availiable ammonia that could harm the fish. Unless you are keeping the tanks temperature at over 100 degree's.

 

[Toby_H]

And with these discus breeding set ups the ph levels are very low. Once you go below around 5ph you don't need biological filtration. Because there will be no availiable ammonia that could harm the fish. Unless you are keeping the tanks temperature at over 100 degree's.

While it is true that at lower PH values toxic ammonia is converted to less toxic ammonium...

It is not true to suggest that at lower PH values no biological filtration is needed...

Bacteria will still develop and will convert ammonium into nitrite just like it converts ammonia into nitrite... and nitrite is no les toxic at lower PH values. I have read that it is more toxic, though I read this in fish hobby articles, not scientific studies...

 

[dwilder]

here is some good info on bb and how ph and temp effects http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

 

[Toby_H]

here is some good info on bb and how ph and temp effects http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

Thanks for the article Dwilder. Keep in mind “BioConLabs” is a filter manufacturer that has an ulterior motive of talking you into buying a high end filter, which they happen to produce and are eager to sell you…
　
Doing personal research on Ammonia Oxidizing Bacteria while staying away from any explanations offered by filter manufacturers or their sister companies will give you a much better education.
　
That is not to say this article is nonsense… and I am enjoying reading it. I just wouldn’t assume every detail of it is hardened fact…

 

[dwilder]

yeah i realize that it was a company trying to sell but i have read the research through a couple of university web sites the info matches this article and this article is a pretty basic read so thats why i have this one book marked

 

[Toby_H]

A few 'highlights' from the article Dwilder shared...
　

Scientific studies have shown that Nitrosomonas bacterium are so efficient that a single cell can convert ammonia at a rate that would require up to one million heterotrophs to accomplish.

　
Reading this statement leads me to believe thee are far fewer bacterium in your systems than one would typically expect… up to 1/1,000,000th as many… Thus, Nitrosomonas will need 1/1,000,000th as much “surface area” to colonize as heterotrophs would need…
　
　

Nitrifying bacteria reproduce by binary division. Under optimal conditions, Nitrosomonas may double every 7 hours and Nitrobacter every 13 hours. More realistically, they will double every 15-20 hours.

　
I’ve heard many people wonder about this point… and I’ve read similar time frames from many sources…
　
　

None of the Nitrobacteraceaeare able to form spores.

　
I bet Seachem would hate for this to become commonly accepted, as they suggest otherwise…
　
　
In the section about PH & Bacteria…
　
It states that at 6.0 a decrease in nitrification is found, increasing as it gets lower. It does not state what PH level the bacteria stops nitrifying or dies. Ranges of 7.0 to 6.0 will slow growth, but does not reduce effectiveness.
　
It should be understood that once a tank is cycled, “growth’ stops becoming an important detail. Bacteria does not “die of old age”. Therefore if the ammonia input remains constant, zero growth should still keep detectable ammonia at 0. Once a system at a low PH (below 6.0) has a sufficient quantity of bacteria to process it’s given ammonia input, even though functioning at a reduced efficiency, is should still be able to maintain a detectable ammonia value of zero.
　
Fluctuating or crashing PH values can cause major issues though…
　
　
Interesting article… thanks for sharing it… and I agree the information it contains seems quite legit…