Imperial Line Festae

[dogofwar]

...and I thought that they were from Imperial Tropicals (fish farm in Florida): https://imperialtropicals.com/

Shouldn't they get dibs on the made-up name?

Matt

 

[dogofwar]

That's exactly the wrong way to look at things.

Wild fish aren't necessarily "better" than F1 (or F2 or Fwhatever).

Among individuals in a wild population of fish, there is often great variability. Some hold the aesthetic and behavioral characteristics that aquarists want. Others don't. There are wild fish with "poor" color and captive fish with exceptional.

That's why folks line breed fish (which takes several generations...not just breeding two fish with desirable characteristics) to try to enhance and accentuate desired characteristics (many of which don't occur in the wild).

And the obsession by some with the whole "unrelated bloodline" concept is equally misguided.

Sibling fish can and do breed for generations in the wild and in captivity without issue. And unrelated fish...if they have (especially recessive) genetic issues can combine to result in fish with issues. Combining fish with -allegedly - different parents doesn't mean that the resulting fish will be "better" (i.e. have more of the characteristics that make them desirable to aquarists) or "stronger".

If you're trying to line breed fish with desired characteristics, introducing fish with unknown lineage can often be counterproductive (e.g. Who knows if a fish that's bright red and tall has recessive genes for missing a tail and beak face? Unless, of course, you breed it for several generations).

And we wonder why experienced folks don't post on MFK much...

Matt

I have some actual questions about all this that I hope will elevate the discussion.

1. I know all about "F0" being a wild caught fish. And F1 is not quite as "good", and F2 is less, and so on. But does F1 and F2 mean inbred fish--children of 2 parents interbreeding? If I have 2 F0 fish, breed them together at my house, those offspring are still F0 -- but nobody would say my 2 WC F0 parents' offspring bred in a tank in my house are F0, too. Everybody would call them "F1", or "Captive Bred"? Why? The offspring are every bit as "unrelated" as they would have been if they'd hatched in a river 3 months before they were caught.

2. If you go to Ecuador, get in a canoe with a cast net, and catch 20 Festae out of a river, you don't really know that you've caught 20 unrelated fish. You very possibly could have caught 20 siblings. But every one of you would call those fish F0, right?

3. And this is a BIG one. How much inbreeding can a fish REALLY take before having genetic problems in the offspring? And don't be too hasty with this everyone. Fish are not people, they're not mammals, they're not even birds. I'm not SURE about this, but I think fish are probably even genetically "simpler" than land reptiles like snakes. They have evolved over long periods in very small bodies of water, with very little genetic variance introduced, and I THINK they can do just fine with a lot more "inbreeding" than we would all think.

I'm not a geneticist, but I think we all have assumptions about fish breeding based on what we think is proper genetic diversity with dogs and people--and that is probably not at all appropriate for fish. And I think we all make way more out of the whole "F0, F1, F2" thing than we should.

As for the lineage of these fish, I have actually been considering some Festae. And I would consider some Imperial Line Festae if I had MUCH more detail about the breeding program.

It would have been nice to see more detailed information about the breeding program and the lineage of these fish somewhere in the 50 plus posts.

 

[Pomatomus]

Imperial festae? Sounds like some "gorillus" umbee mumbo jumbo

But really, animal breeders don't name their lineages cuz they feel like it. That's what drug dealers do.

 

[Cyberman]

If these fish had something noticably different about there appearance I could understand a name change... Like Pyro-Trimacs or Super Red Firemouths etc etc... but these so called Imperial Festae are pretty much AVERAGE JOE FESTAE - No two ways about it!....

 

[oriqua]

Completely agree.

Your entitled to your oponion. Never claimed dominion
Just love my fish
Thanks for looking

 

[oriqua]

Imperial festae? Sounds like some "gorillus" umbee mumbo jumbo

Gorillus seems to identified now! Did any of you mfk people know what they where? To the simple hobbyist there a blindness. I love the Gorillus, how would you identify there short faces , red freckles oh that's right the location way. Many breeder of dogs have line names so .....again if it's Mumbo Jumbo..what have you contributed?

 

[oriqua]

If these fish had something noticably different about there appearance I could understand a name change... Like Pyro-Trimacs or Super Red Firemouths etc etc... but these so called Imperial Festae are pretty much
AVERAGE JOE FESTAE - No two ways about it!....


Average Joe Festae where your Festae?
I mean what qualitiesdoes your superior festae own...long beaks?

 

[oriqua]

People will always experiment with everything they have dominion over. Just because festae are incredibly beautiful as a natural species, does not make them immune. There will always be people that will promote their line, and its up to individual fish keepers as to what their value is. For me, I've always wanted as close to wild caught as possible.

That's what I'm doing. People become jealous ...and always seem to hate in this place. That's ok more pictures

 

[oriqua]

...and I thought that they were from Imperial Tropicals (fish farm in Florida): https://imperialtropicals.com/

How so? That's the name of tropical fish store?
I can say dog of water or war ...whatever

Shouldn't you give William Shakespeare credit?



Shouldn't they get dibs on the made-up name?

Matt

 

[oriqua]

Well put.

Yeah well again what contributions have you made Stan the hand....