On the difficulty of correctly identifying your Goonch. (Bagarius)

Estarego8

Bronze Tier VIP
MFK Member
Jan 14, 2011
815
2
498
New Jersey
Ah ah ah...

I see that I was not clear enough in my explanation. For this, I apologize. Let me clarify.

Bottom line up front:

B. bagarius- Yes, giant north Indian species.

B. yarrelli- Yes, giant south Indian species.

B. rutilus- Yes, medium SE Asian species.

B. lica- Yes, large SE Asian species.

B. suchus- Yes, medium SE Asian species.

B. cf. dwarf- Yes, separate from all the others, unnamed, SE Asia.

There IS a dwarf species that doesn't get over eight inches. This is very well documented in the literature with adult, sexually mature fish in the 6-8 inch range. These fish do not exceed 8" however. When either Dr. Ng or myself refer to a dwarf goonch, this is the fish about which we are speaking.

Roberts in 1983 wrote a description of a dwarf species. Based on morphological similarities of the spine and the fins to the previously written description of B. bagarius, he called his dwarf B. bagarius.

However, the original 1822 description of a northern giant as B. bagarius was likely correct after all. The northern giant fish exactly match the original description which would make the older name valid. This would mean that the northern giants are B. bagarius, not B. yarrelli.

This also leaves the dwarf species, which IS known to exist, nameless. Just because it doesn't have a scientific name doesn't make it less real. Look at your Peruvian dragon cat for example.

Interestingly though, the southern Indian goonches actually match the description that Roberts wrote for B. yarrelli. They are a separate species and they can get very large also, 5'+.

Rutilus lives in east Asia and is very well documented in science. It is sexually mature at about 2' and normally doesn't exceed 3' as an adult. It IS NOT the dwarf species. Calling rutilus a dwarf species based on the Indian giant is like calling a Brachyplatystoma juruense a dwarf Pim based on Brachyplatystoma filamentosum. It might be dwarfed by the giant species, but it is a rutilus, not the dwarf. The dwarf is separate.

The fourth large and ambiguous species is B. lica from extreme southeast Asia and Indonesia. This was rolled into B. yarrelli based on the same data that caused him to fail to ID rutilus and to roll up the two Indian species into one: body part size ratios and the ignoring of habitats. This is another 5'+ species that is warm water living and extremely heavily spotted.

We also have B. suchus which is quite obvious and doesn't warrant further explanation.

Finally, there is a distinct possibility that there are more species of goonch out there that are presently unknown to science. These further complicate the issue.

Estarego, If your fish is 9-10 inches that tears it then. I thought your fish was smaller than that and I told Dr. Ng that it was 7-8 inches. Yours can't be a dwarf goonch as the dwarfs do NOT exceed 8". The orange is coming in very nice on its fins now, too. As its over 8" with orange on the fins, that means there are two possibilities: rutilus or an new species. I find rutilus to be more likely.
Lmao i was speaking if mine is a dwarf then they have sizing wrong hahaha I speak as a keeper. Mine is steadily growing and the red orange is coming out. The Yarrelli is growing a hell of a lot faster.:beer:

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
 

Catfish Pownage 63

Gambusia
MFK Member
Aug 5, 2012
613
3
16
Arlington, WA
also is this the cf. dwarf species because i have always wanted to have one
Thumbnail.gif
got this off of AquaScape Online as said in the corner of the pic

Thumbnail.gif
 

Chicxulub

Hand of the King
Administrator
Aug 29, 2009
11,381
7,373
1,955
40
I crash at the K-Pg

Chicxulub

Hand of the King
Administrator
Aug 29, 2009
11,381
7,373
1,955
40
I crash at the K-Pg
Hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like a rutilus to me. I can't see the eyes; are they round or oval? Do you have any more recent pictures?
 

Fishes33

Polypterus
MFK Member
Apr 4, 2006
3,673
159
96
Canada, Toronto
Hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like a rutilus to me. I can't see the eyes; are they round or oval? Do you have any more recent pictures?
Nope, it died a long time ago in 18C / 64.4F water, and nobody could ID it at the time :(

Thanks! I will accept it as B.rutilus :D

That explains why it died in cold water assuming it is a South Eastern Asian species
 

lix.ma14

Hydrolycus Armatus
MFK Member
Jan 7, 2011
7,181
20
92
Ontario, Canada
Nope, it died a long time ago in 18C / 64.4F water, and nobody could ID it at the time :(

Thanks! I will accept it as B.rutilus :D

That explains why it died in cold water assuming it is a South Eastern Asian species
where did you get that bad boi? I'm looking for one in canada.
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store