Upgrading and looking for heaters that can heat 400 gallons.
- Thread starter Venom Stinger
- Start date
i just figured the air would be cooler. i never really thought about the air getting warmer from the pump.
i keep my house at 72 to 75 degrees...i just thought the air pumps are blowing 70's degrees air in my tank...
and if you are running that many stones.. i should be fine.
thanks Alan.
You got it.
It's a thermostat that you can plug mutliple heaters into. Here's a good bit of info from Jehmco's website that outlines the benefits of having a central temperature controller versus running multiple heaters with their own built in thermostats:
NOTES on electrically heating larger aquariums or central systems:
Large aquariums or Central Filtration systems with Sumps can benefit from using heaters with a separate controller. Considering an average of 4 watts per gallon minimum requirement, one 300 watt heater would not be adequate to keep a 90 gallon aquarium at 80 degree F. In fact any aquarium 48 or longer can benefit from having 2 smaller heaters on opposite ends.
Perfectly synchronizing both heaters thermostats can be problematic at best, if not impossible. Conventional aquarium heaters are made primarily for low cost sales appeal. The integrated thermostats are not very accurate nor reliable, but the primary problem occurs with regards to the setpoint and the differential built into all thermostats. The differential is the difference between the turn on setting and the turn off setting. This prevents the heaters from turning on and off rapidly (cycling), in response to small changes in temperature. This setting can be between 1/2 and 2 degrees and when installing multiple heaters within the same body of water it becomes impossible for both these thermostats to operate identically.
As an example of problems related to setpoint variance: An 100 gallon aquarium with (2) 200 watt heaters on opposite ends of the tank. One heater senses the temperature drop to 77 F and turns on, beginning to heat the water. Meanwhile the other heater has not yet turned on and may not since the turn on temperature setting may not be exactly the same. Or the water could be very slightly warmer where this heater is, preventing this heater from seeing its turn on temperature. As the first heater begins to heat the water, the second is much less likely to turn on now, since the turn on temp setting is slowly being exceeded. This leaves the first heater doing most of the work to bring up the tanks temperature and reach its turn off setting. It most likely will have difficulty just maintaining the tanks temp., since one 200 watt heater may not be adequate for an 100 gallon aquarium. The second heater may eventually turn on, but not before the first heater has been on for an extended period.
An example of thermostat differential problems: Consider a situation where 2 heaters manage to be on at the same time, then one heater reaches its turn off setting first either due to slightly different differentials, inaccuracies in the thermostats, or slight water temp fluctuations. The remaining heater is now doing all the work trying to reach its turn off setting. It is struggling to maintain temperature in the tank. The second heater does not turn on yet since the required differential has not been reached. (turn on setting is below what the second heater, by being on is allowing the tanks temp. to fall to) it may stay on for hours in this mode before the desired temp. is reached or the other heater switches on!
The larger the aquarium, the more heaters required, the more problems with synchronizing occur. Many larger aquariums with multiple heaters will have at least one heater operating at long intervals, sometimes always on. This puts a lot of wear on the heater, increasing the likelihood that it will fail at some point. With all heaters properly synchronized, the service life of aquarium heaters will be much longer. This is only possible by using a separate controller. All of the heaters are adjusted to their highest setting, (permanently on) and all plugged into a power strip type adapter. This is then connected to the output of the controller, thereby effectively bypassing the heaters thermostats.
The problems with synchronization can be exacerbated when multiple heaters are placed in a sump, as is common on larger aquariums with Wet-Dry filtration systems. Consider the high wattage requirements of a 180 gallon aquarium with a sump size of maybe 30 gallons. Even with a flow rate of 1200 GPH through the filter the proximity of the heaters to each other is so very close that the likelihood they all operate concurrently is even more remote than if they were placed directly in the aquarium. The need for a separate controller is strongly indicated in this configuration.
With properly synchronized heaters, the actual on time for heating the aquarium is much less, thereby providing less wear on individual heaters. The cost savings in electricity usage alone may pay for the price of the controller in a short time.
The use of a Temperature Control device with a remotely mounted sensor, provides much better aquarium temperature maintenance. The sensor can be mounted unobtrusively anywhere needed in the aquarium. (Near the filter intake or even within the overflow box.) Adjustments to the tanks water temperature is done much easier than without a controller. (Imagine trying to raise the settings equally on 4 or 5 individual heaters) By using this controller in conjunction with higher quality Aquarium heaters such as Ebo-Jager or our large Titanium Heaters will provide the aquarium with a reliable system for maintaining proper temperature control at a fraction of the cost of other set-ups such as Industrial type Immersion Heaters and high wattage inline heater modules. This controller can alternatively operate a chiller or be wired in series with the chillers control to prevent both from operating at the same time.
Source: http://www.jehmco.com/html/temperature_controller.html
Mmmmmm why it's the tank temp you want set not the sump temp
If you have say 2 x 300w in the sump which is smaller than the main tank
The sump will hear up fast and the heater shut off leaving the main tank cooler
Your tank is the temp you want not the sump temp
Think about it then come back to me after you have changed yours around
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wow aldi, thank you very much.
what i am getting is nothing special..i just need something bigger for another 9 months so instead of spending a thousand plus on a glass tank i am getting a 265g 6' round pond.
so let me break down what i am going to do and then please tell me the best place to put the heaters.
first filter will be a Tetrapond Bio active Pressure filter with an 18w UV. rated for a 4000g pond.
that will return into my second filter.. the wet/dry i am using now. That will return into my 90g sump that has my third filter and bio media..a overflow that will then return into my forth but smallest filtration..a wet/dry rated for a 125g tank that returns into my pond.
I looked at one heater and its like 5.5 to 6.5" long, i could stick two of them in my last wet/dry...
what i am getting is nothing special..i just need something bigger for another 9 months so instead of spending a thousand plus on a glass tank i am getting a 265g 6' round pond.
so let me break down what i am going to do and then please tell me the best place to put the heaters.
first filter will be a Tetrapond Bio active Pressure filter with an 18w UV. rated for a 4000g pond.
that will return into my second filter.. the wet/dry i am using now. That will return into my 90g sump that has my third filter and bio media..a overflow that will then return into my forth but smallest filtration..a wet/dry rated for a 125g tank that returns into my pond.
I looked at one heater and its like 5.5 to 6.5" long, i could stick two of them in my last wet/dry...
Hi, I thought about it and I'm back.
Water is constantly circulating through your sump, so to say that the two bodies of water are different does not make sense (as long as the water is being circulated, the temps between the display and the sump will be very similiar, +-1, if not identical...it's the same water).
The scenario that I mentioned is a pump failure that results in water no longer being circulated...at this point, you do have two separate bodies of water (display tank and sump). You still with me?
Since your heaters are located in your sump and your pump is no longer working, heated water is no longer being pumped back up to your display. Since your sensor is located in the display, your controller will realize the drop in temperature and activate the heaters. Your controller is not smart enough to know that your heaters are located in your sump, and your failed pump is no longer circulating the heated water back up to your display. It will think the heaters need to stay on because the water temps in your display are not achieving their set point.
The outcome of this scenario is having an overheated sump = cooked bio.
Feel free to ask me any questions if you still don't get it.
It might seem far fetched, but I know a guy who had a power outage and his pump did not power back on when the power came back and his heaters basically boiled his live rock in his sump.
Place the sensor near your drains where water enters your sump (away from your heaters), so that if your pump fails, your temp controller will shut off your heaters before they boil your bio.
Think about it and get back to me after you've changed yours around.
I do like the the idea and use of a separate controller. Will definitely be checking into getting one.
Thanks for the info Aldiaz......
Thanks for the info Aldiaz......
