Why does everyone overdo the bio?

[nfored]

I used to hate fish, but fell in love with bala sharks or tri color. I went crazy and have wasted alot of money on different project things I have tired, and even a few failed tanks setups *cough* Planted Tank *cough*

The spending and wasting of money has not made me falter, rather its made me think more and figure out how I can run more efficiently. I have wasted I am sure a few hundred dollars on this and that. With that said I will not trade it for the world, it would have been nice to have the knowledge and not had to waste the money, however through my pain I have gained knowledge and have been able to help some people. I hope to help more people, and I also plan to revisit my planted tanks.

Also while I say I wasted the money, it true I spent it on things that are no longer used but for the most part I have re used pretty much all of it. with the exception of pvc. I swear home depot must think I have enough of it to run water to the moon. lol

One important lesson I learned is one project at a time, get it 100% before starting a new one. Or you will tap out of resources and finish neither.

 

[Toby_H]

“More is better”… is not always true… and simply is not true when it comes to basic biofiltration…
　
If your system needs 1 billion bacterium to thrive… and you provide enough “bio media” to house 426 trillion bacterium… guess how many bacterium your system will house (1 billion)…
　
What is “better’ about having all of this extra unused potential housing for bacterium?
　
It is my opinion that the vast majority of hobbyists misbelieve that they need extensive amounts of bio media because A) media manufacturers have lied/exaggerated to boost sales… B) Hobbyists have made inaccurate equations converting salt water logic to freshwater… and C) The “bigger is better” or “more is better” philosophy has been applied without using logic to confirm it’s accuracy in this matter…
　
I do firmly believe in the application of “overkill”… If I “need” 4, I’ll likely supply 6... But if I “need” 4, I think using 14,000 is a waste of 13, 994...

 

[packer43064]

I used to hate fish, but fell in love with bala sharks or tri color. I went crazy and have wasted alot of money on different project things I have tired, and even a few failed tanks setups *cough* Planted Tank *cough*

The spending and wasting of money has not made me falter, rather its made me think more and figure out how I can run more efficiently. I have wasted I am sure a few hundred dollars on this and that. With that said I will not trade it for the world, it would have been nice to have the knowledge and not had to waste the money, however through my pain I have gained knowledge and have been able to help some people. I hope to help more people, and I also plan to revisit my planted tanks.

Also while I say I wasted the money, it true I spent it on things that are no longer used but for the most part I have re used pretty much all of it. with the exception of pvc. I swear home depot must think I have enough of it to run water to the moon. lol

One important lesson I learned is one project at a time, get it 100% before starting a new one. Or you will tap out of resources and finish neither.

Who hasn't failed a planted tank, lol.

 

[nfored]

I honestly think more is only better as a fail safe as mentioned above, however one nice thing about bio media is it never goes to waste. If you over do it, you can always use it in another tank, and lets face it WE ARE MFK there will always be another tank. It cost no more power or any other on going price to have more bio media; only the inital cost. I for example plan to have 5.5 litters of Seachem Matrix that cost about 50 bucks. I could get buy with 2.5 liters for about 20 dollars, but does it really hurt having 30 more dollars worth? I spend that on beer in a month. Plus Now when I get another tank there will be almost no cycling.

 

[cvermeulen]

I like the comment about wasted money not being wasted if you learn from it - Amen! If I didn't think that way I'd be awfully depressed about the money I wasted.

I also agree that a bit of margin is different than ridiculous overkill. 100gallons of scrubbies on a 300gallon tank is just... well... silly, but having 1.5 or 2x as much as you absolutely need is some healthy design.

I like the thought about sumps being universally serviceable, as well as maintainting water levels. I like my sump I have on my 120gl tank quite well actually - it's a 50gl tank with a ~20gl refugium built into it for snails/injured fish/feeders. The main thing I like about sumps is that they are easy to make with available parts - so for the DIY cheapskate like myself, who likes to mess with things to make them work right, they are great. In some ways, you get what you pay for though.

 

[RDTigger]

I like the comment about wasted money not being wasted if you learn from it - Amen! If I didn't think that way I'd be awfully depressed about the money I wasted.

I also agree that a bit of margin is different than ridiculous overkill. 100gallons of scrubbies on a 300gallon tank is just... well... silly, but having 1.5 or 2x as much as you absolutely need is some healthy design.

I like the thought about sumps being universally serviceable, as well as maintainting water levels. I like my sump I have on my 120gl tank quite well actually - it's a 50gl tank with a ~20gl refugium built into it for snails/injured fish/feeders. The main thing I like about sumps is that they are easy to make with available parts - so for the DIY cheapskate like myself, who likes to mess with things to make them work right, they are great. In some ways, you get what you pay for though.

So I am a newb for the most part and recently found a 72g bowfront with a sump. What size tank do start considering a sump over a canister/HOB..?

Also with your statement with more than enough being good... How do you know exactly how much bio-filtration your setup needs? There is no way to fully understand how much BB will be needed to support a system until you start it up and let it run. How should we decide when we have too much..?

 

[Bee0912]

I run my 180gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump at 700GPH. I got crap on here for not having a higher turn over rate and was told to add 1 or 2! FX5's! well this keeps my 180 very clear and healthy. So i think it has to do with how you make use of the space you have.

 

[Toby_H]

The point of this thread is not to suggest sumps are not a good idea…
　
The point of this thread is to discuss the quantity of bio media used and the reasoning behind it…
　

but having 1.5 or 2x as much as you absolutely need is some healthy design.

　
While I thoroughly agree with the 1.5 or even 2 times “overkill” approach…The trick is, how do we know what we “absolutely need” to base our calculations from?
　
When comparing my experience to the common suggestions on this and other forums… the typical suggestions are to use hundreds of times more than “absolutely necessary”.
　
　

Also with your statement with more than enough being good... How do you know exactly how much bio-filtration your setup needs? There is no way to fully understand how much BB will be needed to support a system until you start it up and let it run. How should we decide when we have too much..?

　
The way to learn how much Bio Media we need is NOT to “waste” money on adding extra… it’s to SAVE money on adding little. Using this approach you can find what you literally need, then give yourself a safe margin of “overkill”.
　
In my personal experience I have not been able to create a situation that did not contain enough surface area to house a suitable amount of bacteria in a mature system to keep ammonia and nitrite at zero. Thus, based on my personal experience, bio media is not at all necessary and one nugget is one nugget of overkill.
　
　

I run my 180gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump at 700GPH. I got crap on here for not having a higher turn over rate and was told to add 1 or 2! FX5's! well this keeps my 180 very clear and healthy. So i think it has to do with how you make use of the space you have.

　
First off… be aware that there are a lot of people whose largest tank is 20 gallons but they are eager to scream “advice” to people with 180 gal tanks…
　
Second, when it comes to large tanks and custom filtration, there are a great number of factors to take into account well beyond gph, turnover or sump volume. A very basic principal is big fish make big waste. Big waste weights more and therefore takes larger currents to move it into the intake. Décor also makes a massive influence on filtration and is rarely discussed in filtration threads. The amount of cleaning you expect your filter to do in comparison to what you are willing to do also cannot be overlooked.

Far to many people in forums are eager to give filter suggestions without taking the details into consideration that MUST be taken into consideration to give good advice... in other words... many people post just to see themselves post...

 

[Bee0912]

Yes i do have a large bio load and do a LOT of cleaning of my own but if i dont have time and it goes a week or more i have had no problems so far.

 

[Toby_H]

Yes i do have a large bio load and do a LOT of cleaning of my own but if i dont have time and it goes a week or more i have had no problems so far.

This simplies supports what I've been saying for years... that bio media is not needed...

I'm confident that a typical aquarium's "bio needs" could be met using powerheads to move the water and allowing bacteria to grow on walls, substrate and decor...