Punching Holes In Fins To Reduce Aggression?

[aclockworkorange]

Just FYI this is how conkel actually breeds dovii:

[YT]jv3tZViXEM0[/YT]

Skip to about 1 minute 10 second mark... 1/3 of an acre dovii pond!

And to respond to an earlier question posed, no this would not deter me from ordering from conkel. I'm planning on doing an order with Gage here pretty soon. I imagine some of these techniques came into being back decades ago where you would have to fly to a third world country and track down a rare fish species... If you were out a female then it's not like you could just order another one.

 

[BigUmbeeFan]

Don does what he does to make money, we do what we do because we love the fish. It's a completely different approach.



I agree completely with what DMD123 asks though. Would you still buy fish from someone who does this?

X 2....

In addition to the fin punching practice , I would not buy anything from Don based on my past experience with his people skills.

 

[cichlid2006]

i wouldnt agree with doing this in just a home type setting but for commercial breeding purposes i dont see the harm, its not causing any pain at all to the fish and allows the female to get away easier, it never says what size tank he is keeping these fish in so no one can really say oh hes just doing this so he can keep them in too small a tank, he very well could have them in a good size tank but even in large tanks, fatalities with these guys will still occur when a huge male decides he wants to put the beat down on his girl. and hes not talking about totally mutilating the fin just poking a small hole in it so its not as water dynamic. fish do worse damage to themselves than this just swimming around in our tanks if they hit the decor wrong. as for answering the question of whether i would buy fish from someone who did this... yes, yes i would. like i said before this process does not cause any pain at all to the fish and prevents the death of another fish. Its not comparable whatsoever to something horrible like the companies dying fish purely for cosmetic reasons and causing these fish so much pain and stress that the majority of them die and the ones that do survive still arent able to live full lives

He does say," It is the secret to breeding large predatory fish in a 100g tank" while talking about dovii. Although he does state that he doesn't have to worry because he has large facilities (missed this on the first watch), he states that it is an idea for doing it at tank level.

 

[aclockworkorange]

"Large facilities" when you have a 1/3 of an acre pond full of dovii is a bit of an understatement, don't ya think?

God, I would pay to see the kind of behavior going on underwater in THAT pond... Has to be pretty intense.

 

[Sarah88]

He does say," It is the secret to breeding large predatory fish in a 100g tank" while talking about dovii. Although he does state that he doesn't have to worry because he has large facilities (missed this on the first watch), he states that it is an idea for doing it at tank level.

your right my bad, i heard the part about tank level but not about only 100g, yeah i def dont condone that then i wouldnt even advise to keep a single male in a 100g tank

 

[Freshwaterpredators]

To answer your question about reducing aggression by punching hole into the males fins. There is no way it reduces aggresion, It looks to me like Don uses this technique to slow the males down in tight quarters to give the females an edge and a way to escape the aggressive males. And the hole should grow back depending on where the holes are being made. And for me personally breeding large dovii or any large cichlid in tanks, i would never punch holes in their fins. I use dividers or if the females are smaller then i use caves or pvc piping that the males cant get into. And i would still buy fish from Don just because he punches holes in his large predatory breeders doesnt mean the fry come out like that I dont really care where i buy my fish as long as i am happy with what im getting.

 

[dogofwar]

The hole in the fin bit is yet another Conkel "story" that he's passed on through the years. As most of the pictures in his presentation are decades old, you'd think that if this was his standard practice that he'd have some pictures of it. But alas.

Skip to 1:49 in this video to find out why - among other reasons - I find his stock suspect. Motas and dovii in the same pond = hybrids...

Matt

Just FYI this is how conkel actually breeds dovii:

[YT]jv3tZViXEM0[/YT]

Skip to about 1 minute 10 second mark... 1/3 of an acre dovii pond!

And to respond to an earlier question posed, no this would not deter me from ordering from conkel. I'm planning on doing an order with Gage here pretty soon. I imagine some of these techniques came into being back decades ago where you would have to fly to a third world country and track down a rare fish species... If you were out a female then it's not like you could just order another one.

 

[Gruff Master]

I watched the entire second video. It must be incredible to have that kind of space for keeping and breeding fish. I visit a vendor who is friends with Conkel. He has nothing but high praise for him and the fish that he keeps. I don't personally know the guy, just what I read and hear from others. I always thought Conkel contributed a great deal to the hobby and for that I'm thankful. Anything else I can't comment on. Two types of threads that will guarantee feuds and controversy, NLS and Conkel.

 

[mshill90]

I have heard of this guy.. but I couldn't tell you who he is..

But based on 2 things said in this post:

1. punching holes in fins
2. Dovii + manga in same pond = hybrid

I would not buy fish from him. I do not condone people that mutilate animals, and punching holes in fins constitutes under that as well.

And as long as you have different species that can breed together in a tank/pond that you can not monitor; you have to sell them as hybrids- not pure because you don't know for sure.

 

[blauaugigengel]

Completely agree with this. Mutilating your animals is a sickening practice regardless if the hole fills in or whater you cut away grows back. If you want to breed large predatory fish then do what people here (and in many other places) have been doing for years and buy a very large aquarium and stick a divider in or stay away from large predatory fish if you cannot house them properly.
I know in the UK under our animal welfare laws a person intentionally mutilating their animals, regardless of the severity, would have their animals siezed and they would likely be fined or jailed, again depending on severity.

Everyone here bashes people constantly for keeping fish in aquariums that blatantly do not fit the species. Imagine someone without Conkels influence or fame coming here and saying they mutilate their fishes fins to enable breeding in a very unsuitably sized aquarium. All hell would break loose and I would imagine many senior members would get infractions or banned because it would be a flame fest.

I agree with this. It doesnt matter if you're some famous hobbist or not, I think mutilating your pet to make it accomodate itself to your needs is wrong. Either love your monster fish for what it is, temperament and all, or dont buy it.