the Great Jack Controvery

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Not different species but different variants like the "Texas Cichlid", Chairel, Escondido, Vontehillo.

Texas cichlid and Carpintis are two different species... Herichthys cyanoguttatus and Herichthys carpintis respectively. Chairel, Vontehillo and Escondido are all Herichthys Carpintis collected at different places. This is nothing like Jack Dempseys.

EBJD are not hybrids, that makes no sense. They're natural variants and the simplest way to prove this is that you can breed two regular looking Jack Dempseys and produce EBJD fry. Obviously this will only happen if both parents had a recessive blue gene. There is no way that you would be able to do this by mixing different species... it's like breeding two convicts and getting flowerhorn fry, you can't. But if you breed two regular convicts and get a white convict then you must assume that the parents had the gene to begin with, or that it's a natural mutation, but this would be a convict nonetheless.

- If EBJD were hybrids the parents would show some kind of traits from the species used to make it, because there would be all kind of genes involved, both dominant and recessive. Breed a Midas to a Jag and you won't get 5 Jags and 5 Midas, you will get 10 fish that are a random mix of the two.

- The deformities associated with EBJD are a result of inbreeding, because it's faster, easier and cheaper. This can happen to any other cichlid. In fact most cichlids you find at big chain stores like petsmart have some kind of deformity already... some of them you can't even notice but if you compare these fish to wild caught specimens you will spot differences, because they too have been inbred to death. If you keep breeding your pair of convicts and then breed the fry to each other, etc, without adding new blood lines, you will most certainly get deformed convicts at some point.
 
Oh yeah coming from the guy dog of war.. thats so interested in collection points when other hobbyist bring in something new to the hobbie?? bizzare weird

Ebjd was genetically tested check on "AL things dempsey. The results where LEANING towards a genetic color morph variant.

My opinion is its a color morph and I believe many are not found in the wild because they are out competed by the blue gene brethren and regs. I have seen the red wine variant caught by Umbeeking from Belize and they do look completely different
with a slender body and red coloring,. To sum up they are variants and time will show more and more variants to be introduced.

below opinion is just that opinon...

The origins of the EBJD (random mutation found by an Argentinian hobbyist) has always seemed a little sketchy to me... but I tend to believe that they're just deformed JDs vs. a mix of species.

What I find funny is that this distinction allows people who refuse to keep hybrids like flowerhorns to justify that EBJD are something completely different (and acceptable!)... ;)

Matt
 
I'm having a hard time following your post.

Do you believe that there are natural, wild EBJD swimming around somewhere?

I tend to believe that EBJD are man-developed form of R. octofasciata. Like a balloon ram. Or koi angel. And are the result of perpetuating a mutation that appeared in offspring of some aquarium strain JDs. Do you disagree?

Matt

Oh yeah coming from the guy dog of war.. thats so interested in collection points when other hobbyist bring in something new to the hobbie?? bizzare weird

Ebjd was genetically tested check on "AL things dempsey. The results where LEANING towards a genetic color morph variant.

My opinion is its a color morph and I believe many are not found in the wild because they are out competed by the blue gene brethren and regs. I have seen the red wine variant caught by Umbeeking from Belize and they do look completely different
with a slender body and red coloring,. To sum up they are variants and time will show more and more variants to be introduced.

below opinion is just that opinon...

The origins of the EBJD (random mutation found by an Argentinian hobbyist) has always seemed a little sketchy to me... but I tend to believe that they're just deformed JDs vs. a mix of species.

What I find funny is that this distinction allows people who refuse to keep hybrids like flowerhorns to justify that EBJD are something completely different (and acceptable!)... ;)

Matt
 
You and I have opinions right ..I can say Ive never collected in Mexico Belize or other natuaral habitats that house the
rocia octofasicata - I have seen the red variant red wine jack with my own eyes.. So is that a mutated species??

No one has concrete proof but studies have been done genetical testing but its a hot topic discussion.

I will stick with my belief its a recessive gene that creates the color morph..
 
I can't speak to the "red variant red wine jack"... but it is likely just a (naturally occurring) color variant of R. octofasciata. Some populations are redder (greener, browner. whatever) than others based on diet on other environmental factors perhaps specific to a particular locale.

The mutations that make EBJD different than wild-type ones are definitely recessive. But - to my knowledge - they've never been found in the wild.

I guess I'm confused as to what you're disagreeing with me about...

Matt

You and I have opinions right ..I can say Ive never collected in Mexico Belize or other natuaral habitats that house the
rocia octofasicata - I have seen the red variant red wine jack with my own eyes.. So is that a mutated species??

No one has concrete proof but studies have been done genetical testing but its a hot topic discussion.

I will stick with my belief its a recessive gene that creates the color morph..
 
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