The Ohio situation. Read- this may effect us all

[kamikaziechameleon]

Seems like a logical proposal to me, omitting the reptiles of coarse. Personal can't understand the desire nor the need to own any exotic. Also the comparison of any of these exotics to dogs, cats, small mammals and fish is absurd. Not to mention the comparison to a kitchen knife How can anyone logically compare the training and knowledge it takes to own an exotic as to that of owning a kitchen knive.

It doesn't take any training to stab anyone with a kitchen knife, well maybe pointy end goes in first right but odds are if you have a knife you know how to use it

Seriously though if you read this thread you'd realize that zoo's are run by people!!! and if people can keep exotic animals so can private citizens because guess what, they are people too. Don't worry I don't expect everyone to keep a lion just like I don't expect everyone to drive a ferrari because guess what it takes allot of money and premium care but just because its difficult doesn't mean we should ban it!

 

[kamikaziechameleon]

So neither of you two have ever made a mistake or had anything go wrong? Congratulations your the only two on the planet. I don't know the answers to your specifics, nor do I need to comment on your situation. I do know things can/do go wrong. ERs and insurance adjusters are quit busy. There are certain things that are more damaging when bad happens, the line needs drawn somewhere with animals it exotic large mammals. There is no individual(s) that have or should have the right to keep such animals


With Zoos they need to be heavily regulated but that is another story.

yeah people get in car accidents, people blow up their own houses with hot water heaters etc but guess what we still have hot water and drive cars. The, what about and ACCIDENT scenario is like saying well if something unforeseeable happens what then??? Thats kinda a cop out argument you make and is so easily invalidated with a well what if this then we should do that!

At the end of the day its laws being written by people that have NO idea on what they are legislating.

 

[jcardona1]

but guess what we still have hot water and drive cars..

Straw man argument. It's silly to make that comparison to the keeping of the animals in question.

 

[kamikaziechameleon]

Point is, bad things happen. Even to those that are most prepared. Your situation doesn't really apply since we are talking LARGE EXOTIC MAMMALS. But in your case, you've been broken into before, right? You no have measures set for this to never happen again or is that just an impossible thing?

The concept behind keeping any animal is fundamentally the same. Shall we look at the number of animal maulings or attacks, bites etc annually by safe animals like dogs/cats vs exotic animals that aren't safe??? I think you'd find that Exotic animal keepers have a dramatically better record. Dogs kill people, We have attack and guard dogs for these purposes, no one considers banning attack dogs for some reason. People abandon dogs and cats and feral dogs are a problem in the US. Animal rehabilitation centers are closing all across michigan because of budget shortfalls and private citizens are stepping up to fill that need not zoo's. When a hawk or owl or racoon or something a normal person wouldn't know how to handle ends up in their hands the state directs them to private individuals for rehabilitation. These private citizens provide services and this attitude against exotics is friendly compared to how states are about native animals. We really could stand to see a complete overhaul of animal legislation. But the notion of banning anything is more ignorant and hurtful than helpful.

 

[kamikaziechameleon]

Straw man argument. It's silly to make that comparison to the keeping of the animals in question.

yeah but his argument is baseless, "ban it I can't understand it." That doesn't resolve anything. The perceived danger is way higher than the real danger when this is done right. If you look at statistics these instances of animals escaping and damages they do, ESPECIALLY for exotics is so slim relative to the animal populations and exposure its ridiculous to even get bent out of shape about it. Just look at this ohio break out, how many animals were on the loose(50?)and how many people got hurt(0), we won't see another breakout like that in mylife I expect and yet people are saying how dangerous these animals are! THIS IS RIDICULOUS! We have no precedent for the threat that is perceived VS. the very real benefit of having private owners of exotic animals. If danger is the argument this individuals case is relatively baseless.

 

[kamikaziechameleon]

Straw man argument. It's silly to make that comparison to the keeping of the animals in question.

I don't see a logical point in his arguments. What if is(Bderick67's argument) a complete straw man fallacy. My response was something of a knee jerk reaction. I tend to do that.

 

[coura]

There is another thing you guys are not seeing yet. If all these new laws are put foward and the keeping of most exotics will be banned, do you think every single hobbist will abide and register is animals or even surrender them? Most people will not, and now its worse, a community of people that can keep what ever they please in close doors, which it seems was the case in here, the animals and the farm were not legal. If there was a change to keep legally it would be a great preassure (as there is) by serious keepers upon the others to have higher standart of care and to abide by the laws. And autorities and experts would be given access to the animals, to make shure everything is ok. But with animals banned, people will still want to keep them and of most species all it takes is a few keepers breeding intensively on close doors to produce enough to provide for a wide ilegal market. And these animals will be smuggled in the most inhumane conditions. Now its better hey? And even if they make apprensions with some regularity they wont finish many species like many hots, they are simply to many, to small (can easily go unoticed) and tons of people with them.
By the way, it is possible to have a near flawless legislative sistem for large dangerous exotics, just look at the Uk wild animal act. If Im not mistaken there are private people in the UK legaly keeping big cats, bears, wolfs, hots, etc. Its a very strict legislation as it should be.

 

[Wiggles92]

There is another thing you guys are not seeing yet. If all these new laws are put foward and the keeping of most exotics will be banned, do you think every single hobbist will abide and register is animals or even surrender them? Most people will not, and now its worse, a community of people that can keep what ever they please in close doors, which it seems was the case in here, the animals and the farm were not legal. If there was a change to keep legally it would be a great preassure (as there is) by serious keepers upon the others to have higher standart of care and to abide by the laws. And autorities and experts would be given access to the animals, to make shure everything is ok. But with animals banned, people will still want to keep them and of most species all it takes is a few keepers breeding intensively on close doors to produce enough to provide for a wide ilegal market. And these animals will be smuggled in the most inhumane conditions. Now its better hey? And even if they make apprensions with some regularity they wont finish many species like many hots, they are simply to many, to small (can easily go unoticed) and tons of people with them.
By the way, it is possible to have a near flawless legislative sistem for large dangerous exotics, just look at the Uk wild animal act. If Im not mistaken there are private people in the UK legaly keeping big cats, bears, wolfs, hots, etc. Its a very strict legislation as it should be.

I just read through the list of species that are covered by that act and how to get a permit, and it doesn't seem to be that hard to get a permit as long as you pass the initial inspection.

 

[Bderick67]

It doesn't take any training to stab anyone with a kitchen knife, well maybe pointy end goes in first right but odds are if you have a knife you know how to use it

Seriously though if you read this thread you'd realize that zoo's are run by people!!! and if people can keep exotic animals so can private citizens because guess what, they are people too. Don't worry I don't expect everyone to keep a lion just like I don't expect everyone to drive a ferrari because guess what it takes allot of money and premium care but just because its difficult doesn't mean we should ban it!

Exactly it doesn't take any training to handle a kitchen knife whether it be proper or improperly done. The same cannot be said about handling a Large exotic mammal. The reason comparing the two is so absurd

 

[Bderick67]

The concept behind keeping any animal is fundamentally the same. Shall we look at the number of animal maulings or attacks, bites etc annually by safe animals like dogs/cats vs exotic animals that aren't safe??? I think you'd find that Exotic animal keepers have a dramatically better record. Dogs kill people, We have attack and guard dogs for these purposes, no one considers banning attack dogs for some reason. People abandon dogs and cats and feral dogs are a problem in the US. Animal rehabilitation centers are closing all across michigan because of budget shortfalls and private citizens are stepping up to fill that need not zoo's. When a hawk or owl or racoon or something a normal person wouldn't know how to handle ends up in their hands the state directs them to private individuals for rehabilitation. These private citizens provide services and this attitude against exotics is friendly compared to how states are about native animals. We really could stand to see a complete overhaul of animal legislation. But the notion of banning anything is more ignorant and hurtful than helpful.

No it is not, and it is a stupid argument to make. The catastrophic danger of mishandling a parakeet is nowhere even close to that of a bengal tiger. To even argue such a point is moronic.