The Ohio situation. Read- this may effect us all

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kamikaziechameleon said:
yeah but his argument is baseless, "ban it I can't understand it." That doesn't resolve anything. The perceived danger is way higher than the real danger when this is done right. If you look at statistics these instances of animals escaping and damages they do, ESPECIALLY for exotics is so slim relative to the animal populations and exposure its ridiculous to even get bent out of shape about it. Just look at this ohio break out, how many animals were on the loose(50?)and how many people got hurt(0), we won't see another breakout like that in mylife I expect and yet people are saying how dangerous these animals are! THIS IS RIDICULOUS! We have no precedent for the threat that is perceived VS. the very real benefit of having private owners of exotic animals. If danger is the argument this individuals case is relatively baseless.
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It also has much to do with the fact that these animals should not be kept caged, large cats need room to move a deserve much more then their 1/2 hour exercise time. I know your next knee jerk reaction will be refering to the fish we keep in tanks AGAIN FAR FROM EVEN BEING CLOSE TO THE SAME THING. These animal require far more then what any individual need to provide. Bring up zoos al you want but I don't care not the same.

Individual ownership of large exotic mammals needs to be banned, there is no more reason for ownership then to have a personal trophy.
 
Bderick67 said:
Individual ownership of large exotic mammals needs to be banned, there is no more reason for ownership then to have a personal trophy.
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Barbary Lions were thought to be extinct until a small group was discovered alive and happy in a private menagerie. Every Barbary lion alive in a zoo today is descended from the ones that individual owner kept.

:)
 
snakeguy101 said:
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt...QGi7w3rAQEH8inURuzsYNM_YleF_cKTVRmpR1RScDLRYwhttp://www.usark.org/uploads/USARK%20Model%20Reptiles.pdf
This is a great proposal by US ARK. It only addresses reptile but would easily be adapted to other animals as well. Basically it keeps it legal to keep anything you want but makes it illegal to keep them in an unsafe manner.
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That's really the best way to go about this situation; there's no sense in banning these animals if keepers are going to keep them in a secure enclosure and provide for them adequately.
 
Honestly, bderick67, another victim of traditionalism. Just because a pet isn't traditional is not equivalent for it not being a pet, quite a simple argument. As mentioned before, practicality is a whole different issue. Where do you think your pet dogs came from if your ancestors didn't start from wolves. Again...conservation via captive propagation is bull****, rare by-product of keeping exotics, completely accidental, and never intended, a lousy excuse until intended.
 
Bderick67 said:
It also has much to do with the fact that these animals should not be kept caged, large cats need room to move a deserve much more then their 1/2 hour exercise time. I know your next knee jerk reaction will be refering to the fish we keep in tanks AGAIN FAR FROM EVEN BEING CLOSE TO THE SAME THING. These animal require far more then what any individual need to provide. Bring up zoos al you want but I don't care not the same.

Individual ownership of large exotic mammals needs to be banned, there is no more reason for ownership then to have a personal trophy.
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Sorry to tell you this but your having a VERY narrow view of the problem still. As I told earlier many large animals like lions and tigers if provided with a huge enclosure often choose to remain most of the time in their favorite hangout spot, I get this response from friends that are zookeepers. I dont agree with big cats being caged most of the time and only being allowed walks on a leash like many do, if private ownership were to be allowed they have at minimum to stick with zoo standarts wich is what happens in Uk´s wild animal act. You say they dont even deserve to be caged, that is your personnal opinion and that is ok, however keep it to yourself. Ive seen TONS of wonderfull zoo enclosures with tigers, lions, bears, you name it, without any steryotipical behavior and just being themselfes. Its not the wild and not perfect as nothing is in this world but its better then facing poaching, habitat destruction, etc. Your talking about the consequences of caging them, what about if you dont? They will be wipped out the face of the earth in one generation. If a private individual can provide what this animal needs I have absolutley no problem with. The Ohio situation is no example of a good private. Even if it wasnt ilegal, they had WAY to many dangerous demanding animals for an old couple to handle. Maybe they could handle just a few of them, but not near this numbers, its to much of a precarious situation in case something fails.
You talk about the danger, and yes there is a large component to it, well what about so many components of modern life like fast cars, alcool and my favorite, fast food? I and you dont need any of those to live, however they are widely spread, legal and claim many souls each year. And they dont seem close to being banned due to so many people unresponsability. The importance of things is up to the individual person and I have no doubh this animals are important for MANY people. And if they get banned they will drag alongside with them stuff like lemurs, marmosets and smaller wild cats, which are in the category of nearly harmless. I find that excedingly unfair.
 
snakefin said:
Again...conservation via captive propagation is bull****, rare by-product of keeping exotics, completely accidental, and never intended, a lousy excuse until intended.
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I desagree with that, there are many people involded and commited in keeping and breeding many rare animals just to prevent them from going extinct in the wild or in captivity. Most started keeping just for the peasure of it in early days, but once mature hobbists they specialized in rarer animals because the help they need. A good example are the european studbook in which zoos and privates participate. Many older zoos that are now cutting edge conservation also started in a traditional exibition fashion, its a normal evolution process. You have to start simple and evolve from that.
 
I understand. What I find extremely distasteful, is that many reptile keepers try to justify that as a cause, when it is quite obvious that their intentions are otherwise. Europe for the most part would stay out of this predicament, whilst America will be more susceptible. Yes, the studbook works are very much appreciated that is certain. Out of your social circle of talented, devoted keepers, for the most part, majority of herp keepers have had NO intention in conservation. As for the future implications as you suggest; it is out of the equation in which we now observe.
 
I also see your point, then that is something that needs to be more inprinted on young minds. In the US there are however a fair share of people working in herp conservation as hobbists and breeders. Some even work with conservation institutions, see the example of the Turtle Survivall Alliance. When turtles are confiscated or rescued in Southeast Asia, the ones that make it often spend the remaining of their lifes in private ponds in Florida as assurance colonies.
 
coura said:
I also see your point, then that is something that needs to be more inprinted on young minds. In the US there are however a fair share of people working in herp conservation as hobbists and breeders. Some even work with conservation institutions, see the example of the Turtle Survivall Alliance. When turtles are confiscated or rescued in Southeast Asia, the ones that make it often spend the remaining of their lifes in private ponds in Florida as assurance colonies.
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I remember reading about the Turtle Survival Alliance in REPTILES before; they're do some pretty awesome work with some extremely rare turtles in order to hopefully reintroduce them back into the wild some day. They're definitely one of the best examples of hobbyists making a difference in conservation.
 
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