Joe Paterno and Penn State president fired!

[Warborg]

He's no fall guy! He enabled and allow the child molestations to flourish for many years after it was reported to him and covered it up by doing the legal minimum in that parts of the woods.

If that is not criminal negligence, it should be. No ifs or buts about it!

How you figure? All he had was hear say. Was he suppose to go get his old beat up pick up truck...find an old shot gun... hook up with some hunting buddies and form a lynch mob? Maybe tie a rope around a tree or burn a cross in Sandusky's yard? Opps.... I'm bad that's for ya'll to do.

No... he did exacting as he was suppose to...He reported it to a person higher then him.

 

[Wiggles92]

i think you're one of the few people who took the time to wait for the details to come out and read between the lines, the media has done a great job of making it seem like joe pa knew way back in 98 when the shower incident witnessed by McQueary didnt happen until 2002 and Jerry Sandusky retired in 1999. maybe joe pa (who's old as dirt at the time) didn't fly off the handles and raise hell but he did SOMETHING. alot more then other people who are more directly involved

Ya, I read the timeline that FOX posted (have a link to it towards the start of the thread); said timeline was a boiled down version of the extremely long and detailed court case. Two writers for Sports Illustrated actually went into the one class called "Joe Paterno, Communications, and the Media" and said that the media moved way too fast and severely and unnecessarily skewed the information; I head about that from someone who goes to Penn State and was pretty surprised that people with the media were actually admitting that they messed up.

I imagine that Paterno could have done something more, but what more could he have done beyond reporting the incident to his superiors as well as the police commissioner? It's not like he could call Sandusky out in person. What if it had turned out to be nothing more than a rumor thereby Sandusky could have gotten Paterno for slander? How can we fault someone who wasn't a witness for not doing more when people who witnessed these incidents did next to nothing beyond telling others who were close to them instead of intervening or at least calling the police right then and there. That's why it's so important for firsthand witnesses to alert the authorities in any incidence of a crime.

 

[ballinouttacntrol]

i heard the interview on the dan patrick show with the teacher from "Joe paterno, communications, and the media" and i thought dan botched that interview and cut the teacher off too early when he was saying the media botched it and didn't let the details come out. Dan kinda scolded him and changed the subject

 

[Wiggles92]

i heard the interview on the dan patrick show with the teacher from "Joe paterno, communications, and the media" and i thought dan botched that interview and cut the teacher off too early when he was saying the media botched it and didn't let the details come out. Dan kinda scolded him and changed the subject

Yes, the media typically tries to cover up their mistakes, and frequently will cut off people who disagree with their viewpoints (as you saw); that's why I was very surprised to hear that some people involved with the media actually said that they screwed up rather than just kept going and ignored their mistake.

 

[GudEnuf]

Here's what some sports writers are saying about it:

‘13 years of silence’
“To compound my embarrassment, there is a vigil around Paterno’s house, as if he’s the victim here,” Amaechi says. “When you are the boss — the most powerful person in Western Pennsylvania and beyond — this is part of your responsibility, to act on things like this. His grad assistant allegedly walked in an old man sodomizing a child. I don’t know how that information gets translated from what it was to ‘horseplay.’
“And 13 years of silence? Thirteen years? This is not how powerful people do things. You know what? That’s not even true. That is what powerful people do. Too many. But it isn’t what powerful people are supposed to do. I don’t hate the man. I don’t want to take away his legacy. I know what he has done. I’m aware of his philanthropy. But you can’t be a part-time man of principle. You can’t be principled 99 percent of the time and then, the one time it really counts, not be.”
Is that fair? Too absolute? None of us would want to be defined by our worst public or private act. None of us would want half a century of work smeared by one horrific inaction. But that’s where leaders live, and that’s where Paterno finds himself today everywhere but in the huddle around his home, where people are saying his body of work should count for something. Paterno and his wife were touched by the vigil, coming out on their porch to thank the students for their support. He was headed back in when a fan shouted, “We are Penn State!” It is a famous chant in those parts, an echoing part of the community identity. You hear those four syllables chanted by tens of thousands of swaying people on Saturdays.



That's a quote from another Sports Alum of Penn. He also has a take on Franco Harris rant...

Amaechi loves Penn State, mind you. He learned so much there. The school helped make him a professional basketball player and helped make him a man, and the things he did for the Second Mile Foundation became his life’s work. He knows everyone from the fired coach, to the fired AD, to the alleged pedophile, to the police chief. And he wants it pointed out that the people rioting on the street do not represent the entirety of Penn State.
But he loves the work he does with kids a lot more than he loves his school. He has poured millions upon millions into a basketball center in England that revolves around nurturing them. He has dedicated his life to helping kids in honor of his mother, who told him on her death bed, “I have not led a fun life, but I’ve led a full life.” So he gets incensed when he hears Penn State grad Franco Harris, and other former Penn State players, go on TV and say Paterno shouldn’t have been fired or was fired too fast.
“I was embarrassed for him and us and me,” Amaechi says. “Loyalty and nostalgia trumping justice. It’s as if legacy and brand are more important than the desecration of a child’s life. Talking about time scales? About how quickly someone has been fired? In the scope of more than a decade of silence?
“I don’t even understand how that could make any sense to a person. Legacy, history, nostalgia, loyalty — all of these personal, selfish qualities are getting in the way of empathy for young people who are damaged forever. The image you have of Penn State — the one that makes you feel secure and happy — is not important. That evaporates as an emotion when you see the damage that was done here.”

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/...-penn-state-evokes-a-range.html#ixzz1dcEMStp1
​

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/...-penn-state-evokes-a-range.html#ixzz1dcBcZAOG
​

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/13/2499947/we-are-penn-state-evokes-a-range.html

 

[ballinouttacntrol]

^ what was that suppose to prove? that people think he did wrong? funny that he's not being charged with a single thing. i don't understand 13 years of silence when he went to the police and it was their job to investigate

We realize that all they did was cut 3 games off of joe paterno's career. he already said he'd quit at the end of the year. this is justice? him missing 3 games? haha, come on now!

 

[Wiggles92]

Here's what some sports writers are saying about it:

‘13 years of silence’
“To compound my embarrassment, there is a vigil around Paterno’s house, as if he’s the victim here,” Amaechi says. “When you are the boss — the most powerful person in Western Pennsylvania and beyond — this is part of your responsibility, to act on things like this. His grad assistant allegedly walked in an old man sodomizing a child. I don’t know how that information gets translated from what it was to ‘horseplay.’
“And 13 years of silence? Thirteen years? This is not how powerful people do things. You know what? That’s not even true. That is what powerful people do. Too many. But it isn’t what powerful people are supposed to do. I don’t hate the man. I don’t want to take away his legacy. I know what he has done. I’m aware of his philanthropy. But you can’t be a part-time man of principle. You can’t be principled 99 percent of the time and then, the one time it really counts, not be.”
Is that fair? Too absolute? None of us would want to be defined by our worst public or private act. None of us would want half a century of work smeared by one horrific inaction. But that’s where leaders live, and that’s where Paterno finds himself today everywhere but in the huddle around his home, where people are saying his body of work should count for something. Paterno and his wife were touched by the vigil, coming out on their porch to thank the students for their support. He was headed back in when a fan shouted, “We are Penn State!” It is a famous chant in those parts, an echoing part of the community identity. You hear those four syllables chanted by tens of thousands of swaying people on Saturdays.



That's a quote from another Sports Alum of Penn. He also has a take on Franco Harris rant... the rest of the story is on the following link

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/...-penn-state-evokes-a-range.html#ixzz1dcBcZAOG
​

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/13/2499947/we-are-penn-state-evokes-a-range.html

The problem with that guy's statement is that it's largely incorrect starting with the fact that Paterno was made aware of a single incident nine years ago (not 13) and acted accordingly (informed people above him and told the police commissioner). Odds are that this guy didn't have all the facts when he made this statement.

^ what was that suppose to prove? that people think he did wrong? funny that he's not being charged with a single thing. i don't understand 13 years of silence when he went to the police and it was their job to investigate

We realize that all they did was cut 3 games off of joe paterno's career. he already said he'd quit at the end of the year. this is justice? him missing 3 games? haha, come on now!

I still maintain the position that punishment has not been handed out accordingly; there were far too many people who were either witnesses, heard about these incidents, and/or were in positions of actual power that could have done something. There were at least a dozen people who knew about these acts before Paterno heard a thing from his assistant; some of them had known for two to four years before he heard anything!

To say that he is to receive a worse punishment than a firsthand witness basically goes against the whole system of crime and punishment. And, yes, I imagine that charges will be pressed against Paterno since he's the fall guy in this scandal, so I doubt that he'll get off with just a season cut short, no job, and a tarnished reputation.

 

[GudEnuf]

The problem with that guy's statement is that it's largely incorrect starting with the fact that Paterno was made aware of a single incident nine years ago (not 13) and acted accordingly (informed people above him and told the police commissioner). Odds are that this guy didn't have all the facts when he made this statement.



I still maintain the position that punishment has not been handed out accordingly; there were far too many people who were either witnesses, heard about these incidents, and/or were in positions of actual power that could have done something. There were at least a dozen people who knew about these acts before Paterno heard a thing from his assistant; some of them had known for two to four years before he heard anything!

To say that he is to receive a worse punishment than a firsthand witness basically goes against the whole system of crime and punishment. And, yes, I imagine that charges will be pressed against Paterno since he's the fall guy in this scandal, so I doubt that he'll get off with just a season cut short, no job, and a tarnished reputation.

You have a problem with 13 years? Well there's a problem even if it was 9 Years! Heck there's a problem if it goes beyond a minute after he learns about it. Paterno himself said he should have done more and he did not.

He's the top guy in that part of PA ! Technically the AD and President may be above him in the organizational chart but in reality, because of his success on the football field he was god like and revered above everybody else there. The buck stops with him. Learn about command responsibility..... Makes one wonder what else he's been hiding to propel his success. IMO he got off easy!

 

[Wiggles92]

You have a problem with 13 years? Well there's a problem even if it was 9 Years! Heck there's a problem if it goes beyond a minute after he learns about it. Paterno himself said he should have done more and he did not.

He's the top guy in that part of PA ! Technically the AD and President may be above him in the organizational chart but in reality, because of his success on the football field he was god like and revered above everybody else there. The buck stops with him. Learn about command responsibility..... Makes one wonder what else he's been hiding to propel his success. IMO he got off easy!

It was thirteen years ago when the police first were made aware of Sandusky's pedophilia (but didn't alert anyone at Penn State or charge him with anything); it was nine years ago when Paterno was first made aware. You ask what's the difference? The difference is that at least three incidents occurred in that span of time from when the police found to when Paterno found out; at least two of those incidents were on Penn State property. That's a huge difference considering the fact that Sandusky retired during that period of time and retained emeritus status; had the police alerted Paterno, Sandusky surely would not have been granted access to Penn State facilities and probably would have been fired on the spot.

Coming back to when Paterno did find out, he reported the incident to his superiors, one of which was the police commissioner at the time, thereby following University protocol and legal protocol; he doesn't have the authority to strip an alumnus of their access to Penn State facilities even though he's "the top guy in that part of PA" and can't really fire someone who doesn't work for him any more. I mean, what more can you expect him to (legally) do if he's reported the incident to both his superiors and the police? Once again, you're looking at another failure on the part of the police as well as that of those who do have the power to remove Sandusky's ability to access to Penn State facilities (which they did). Besides, if he's highly revered, you would expect people to act on what he tells them rather than just giving Sandusky a slap on the wrist by taking away his access to Penn State facilities.

In regards to command responsibility, these aren't war crimes therefore that scheme of responsibility doesn't really apply; people don't just get off for their crimes if they were part of, say, a gang because they were acting under orders from a superior... Besides, if we were to go by command responsibility, then Paterno would get off without a hitch, and the two people he informed, who are his superiors, would take the bulk of the punishment for the cover-up. Right now in Pennsylvania, if you see a child being abused legally you only have to report it to your supervisor; the current law doesn't hold you accountable if you don't call the cops. This means that Paterno actually did more than what was required by law! A group is pushing for witnesses to have to report these types of incidents to the police or face a felony; under that proposed law, Paterno and all the others who were told about it would not be able to be charged with anything in regards to reporting it while those who did witness the crimes would face punishment because they didn't report them (which is how it should be).

Really what I'm trying to get at is that there are way more people that need to be receiving punishment than have been dealt with; they can't just let a few people who did not witness these acts firsthand take the fall for those who saw Sandusky sexually abusing these kids yet did nothing.

EDIT: I just ran across this article; the governor makes a pretty good point about the moral vs. legal obligations in this situation.

 

[ballinouttacntrol]

^ what article?