A Thread To Help ID Black Diamonds (P13)

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
DavidW said:
Is a leopoldi still a Leopoldi if it has 1000 spots? if it has none at all?

"Black Diamond" is an invented name.
http://roggenforum.lode.biz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2562

It has become a hobby name for Leopoldi with more spots that are found more predominantly, but not exclusively near Sao Felix on the Southern Xingu river.
'lesser' spotted Leos and other species are also found there.
They might be more correctly called a 'Sao Felix Leopoldi' but even that has problems.
A Brazilian fisherman has a limited quota of Leopoldi rays.
A regular Leo sells for $$hundreds, a BD Leo sells for $$thousands.
http://roggenforum.lode.biz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2590
If you were a fisherman which would you keep and which would you throw back in order to maximize your potential $$$s?
Where would you go fishing? a place where you can catch regular Leos more easily or an area where you have a better chance of getting a highly spotted one?
This creates a distorted idea of being able to classify them into sub-groups by spots and other superficial markings,and that there well defined barriers where one species suddenly becomes another.
They won't fit into neat little boxes like that.
'BD' is an attempt to impose a definition on something that cannot be defined in those absolute terms.
Click to expand...

Best answer so far........... thank you
 
^ ^

Wondered how much longer you were going to keep us waiting. Thank you for the input!! :)

You should put your $.02 in more often!!! :)
 
T1KARMANN said:
even with 20+ years of ray keeping i have never try to start a thread like this

now get lost you joker i have said something to offend you personally if not shut up as i cant think of any reason for your sly digs not in one post but 2

if this is the 1st and only pair of bd he has owned how can he talk about grading and this amount and that amount of spot

t
Click to expand...

Wow So u got 20+ years in ray keepin but commits make you sound like a young joker.
 
I have to wonder where all this crap came from? Just people wanting to make some extra money by making up some new name? I have not been in the ray game long, just under 10 years now, but very few of these "names" existed when I got started. Black Diamond was a ray term I do remember, however I dont believe there is a single pic in here that would have qualified as one. The same goes for Motoros. There was marble (with swirlings between the spots) and chain link (spots touching all the way around), that was it. Now what is this stupid AAA stuff? All it does is raise prices for no reason.

All the people out there are welcome to think they have some something special, but I kind of have to laugh when I see someone buy a supposed black diamond for $2500 when just a few years ago it would have sold as a regular leo for $250. Are they nice looking? Sure. Are there reasons for the price going up? You bet. That doesnt mean the price should be as high as it is though. I think if people got over these designer rays prices would be a bit more reasonable and people could get back to the main reason we are here, for the love of the fish.

Ok, done with my rant. I do see many beautiful rays posted that I would love to own myself. I just think its foolish to make up tons of unnecessary terms for them.
 
Our organization has bred hundreds of rays and we would like to shed some light here. We have breeding stock that was purchased as Bds and has produced amazing quality and average quality. We have also had common leos bred with Bds that give the same results. As DavidW said they are all leopoldis and grading of quality is based on the individual fish regardless if the parents are Bd or Leo.

Let me put it into perspective so everyone can understand. Coming from the wild a ray that is classified as Bd can be from parents of be either a Bd or Leo. Our breeding results have shown this to be true. So if the parent is a common Leo does it mean the fish is worth less. It is still being exported as a Bd and now it is in your tank and you are breeding it calling them pure.

Ask yourself who is classifying these fish?? Brazilian native fisherman!! Just because they call it Bd and sell it as Bd. I guess they have the final say.

Bottomline is.... Regardless of parents... Fish should be graded based on appearance just as the fisherman do it. The term 'pure' should not be used by any breeder because nobody really knows what goes on in the wild. Even to call them Sao Felix Leopoldis we cannot use the term pure because the exporter may not be telling the truth.
 
StingrayBiology said:
Our organization has bred hundreds of rays and we would like to shed some light here. We have breeding stock that was purchased as Bds and has produced amazing quality and average quality. We have also had common leos bred with Bds that give the same results. As DavidW said they are all leopoldis and grading of quality is based on the individual fish regardless if the parents are Bd or Leo.

Let me put it into perspective so everyone can understand. Coming from the wild a ray that is classified as Bd can be from parents of be either a Bd or Leo. Our breeding results have shown this to be true. So if the parent is a common Leo does it mean the fish is worth less. It is still being exported as a Bd and now it is in your tank and you are breeding it calling them pure.

Ask yourself who is classifying these fish?? Brazilian native fisherman!! Just because they call it Bd and sell it as Bd. I guess they have the final say.

Bottomline is.... Regardless of parents... Fish should be graded based on appearance just as the fisherman do it. The term 'pure' should not be used by any breeder because nobody really knows what goes on in the wild. Even to call them Sao Felix Leopoldis we cannot use the term pure because the exporter may not be telling the truth.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your comments and perspective makes sense for sure.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
MonsterFishKeepers.com
Top Bottom