got this message in my pm from whoever the hell this guy is...

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I don't think that a vendor advertising & selling something that they know it most definitely is not, is splitting hairs. I also believe that everyone has more than just a vendors word to go off of, it's called common sense.

For those that want to believe that anyone is out collecting 3/4"-1" festae fry, in the Rio Tumbes River, in Sept, long after spawning season has ended, that's certainly your prerogative.

How do you know the vendor in question was for sure doing this?

I don't get how people on here can be so sure of things when they have no proof of the such and accusation. My personal stance would be that if you have to be some 100% sure that your fish is pure and can't seemingly trust the word of a reputable breeder than you need to go and collect the fish yourself. There is no fool proof system and that is why I would never spend the extra money to buy a wild caught fish. But I also wouldn't make such strong accusations on a matter that can not be proved one way or another.

-Cage
 
Cage, that comment was in response to this;

It is just my $.02 here but I would say this is kind of splitting hairs. To me it really doesn't matter too much if a fish is F0 or F1.

Is that clear enough?

As previously stated, for those that want to believe that anyone is out collecting 3/4"-1" festae fry, in the Rio Tumbes River, in Sept, long after spawning season has ended, that's certainly your prerogative.
 
Cage, that comment was in response to this;



Is that clear enough?

As previously stated, for those that want to believe that anyone is out collecting 3/4"-1" festae fry, in the Rio Tumbes River, in Sept, long after spawning season has ended, that's certainly your prerogative.

i don't think your common sense is any good bro :)

they arrived late Sept.
They were not born as 1" fish in Sept.
They were eggs then took some time to grow to 1". Spawning was before that. They did not just pop out in Sept. as one 1" fish.

Not saying I know what because Im just like all yall. We don't know and still assumptions no proof of anything.

Stop trying to be smart and right when you guys got nothing..

Nothing.

come on Geniuses
 
umm... don't know about SA but African cichlids traditionally would be netted en mass as small as 1/4 inch and exported. Yeah more sensitive fish typically would not be caught at this size and moved in such a fashion but mbuna and other smaller Africans would ship en mass as wild caught babies over a decade ago.
 
umm... don't know about SA but African cichlids traditionally would be netted en mass as small as 1/4 inch and exported. Yeah more sensitive fish typically would not be caught at this size and moved in such a fashion but mbuna and other smaller Africans would ship en mass as wild caught babies over a decade ago.

Sorry, but that's not at all how wild caught African cichlids are collected, and this is coming from some one who has a personal friend who worked for the late Stuart Grant on Lake Malawi. I've seen the photos, watched his power point presentation, and discussed all of this in great detail with him when he returned back to Canada. I also used to regularly converse with a collector/exporter on Lake Tanganyika, and he wasn't netting fry either, ever.

No commercial exporter is netting baby wild caught fish, period, as there is no demand for fry, and there is no money in it. Anyone that wants fry can breed their own damn fish. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to net an adult mbuna, let alone fry? Talk to someone who has actually been there, and actually collected wild fish, then come back & tell me how many fry are collected in the Rift Lakes for export. The largest fish always demand the largest amount of $$$, and in the case of Malawi those fish typically went to Europe or Japan, where they would pay premium $$$ for those fish, more than USA vendors would.

I have no idea where you would come up with the notion that fry are collected for export in the Rift Lakes? A hobbyist, collecting their own fish, and paying their own shipping back to wherever, sure, but not commercial exporters. As previously explained, exporters don't pay the shipping fees, importers do.


animal guy, feel free to believe what you want, no sweat off my back either way. You started this rant thread, I'm just adding to it from my life experiences.

Using your logic, it would have taken your "wild caught" festae fry several months to gain 1" in size. As previously stated, in the Rio Tumbes district the rainy season runs from Dec to March, into April in a worst case scenario, and the onset of the rainy season is when the majority of spawning activity takes place. So in a best case scenario, those festae fry would have been born as early as Dec, or in a worst case scenario possibly as late as April, ......... and it took them until the end of Sept to reach 1". Sure, okay.

And where are the rest of the wild caught Peruvian fish for sale from this vendor? Surely he didn't just bring in a single box of 1" festae fry on an order from Peru?

Honestly, some people sure are naive.

I think that I've said more than enough about this, best of luck with your new fish.
 
I've been messaged by this guy RRgers and I must say he knows what he's talking about, but he comes off harsh and I've seen many people complain about this person because of that reason. Im not into MFK drama so ill move on and say I'm no expert but festae HAVE been banned for exportation which can definitely make you wonder.
 
Ask him to show you the import papers from the shipper. He can redact the prices and any other info that he doesn't want you to see.

Done and done.

Matt

i don't think your common sense is any good bro :)

they arrived late Sept.
They were not born as 1" fish in Sept.
They were eggs then took some time to grow to 1". Spawning was before that. They did not just pop out in Sept. as one 1" fish.

Not saying I know what because Im just like all yall. We don't know and still assumptions no proof of anything.

Stop trying to be smart and right when you guys got nothing..

Nothing.

come on Geniuses
 
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that's a good idea.

but


But you guys are the accusers.

Lets see what you guys got to show to proof.



He's not accusing anyone of anything. He's just chillin livin his life Im sure. I don't want to bother ppl for that. But you can.


So all guesses and assumptions still...

You guys aren't geniuses so calm down with writting pages full of "no proves"

I did not read any of them but I already know there's nothing there :)
 
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