you dirty sun of a

[djaalix]

i agree with you, however, generally speaking apex predators will not fight or "compete" for habitat if theres plenty of food available .... ATF's on the other hand are unique in that they nip and chase, but in my experience they dont BITE, unless hungry or stressed or are used to a solitary environment, or just bad luck possibly... the nipping unfortunately, if its an eye thats nipped, can lead to problems, but otherwise is normal, and doesnt cause death usually, in my experience at least, just to clarify what i'm trying to say ... either way it stinks, but keeping an all predatory tank is certainly risky business
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[sashimimaster]

That's why I only keep one GATF with 4 VATF. It seems that VATF are more sociable and tolerant of each other than GATFs. They are pushing 5-6" and so far only give each other small nicks when chasing. They're also in a 680g which gives them plenty of space. When I had some 8 inchers in a 150g they used to fight a lot more and had much more severe wounds.

As far as keeping them with other fish. The way I look at it is if they're the most expensive fish that you want to keep why risk their health or safety by having other predators in there with them?

 

[arowanaryan]

That's why I only keep one GATF with 4 VATF. It seems that VATF are more sociable and tolerant of each other than GATFs. They are pushing 5-6" and so far only give each other small nicks when chasing. They're also in a 680g which gives them plenty of space. When I had some 8 inchers in a 150g they used to fight a lot more and had much more severe wounds.

As far as keeping them with other fish. The way I look at it is if they're the most expensive fish that you want to keep why risk their health or safety by having other predators in there with them?

Hey sashimaster how about a feeding video of your fishes?? I'm dying to see one your tank witht he size and stock has insane potential for monstrosity lol.

 

[sbuse]

sucks man, its the nature of the beast though... Mine nip and chase now only, but they are all 10+ inches... when they were younger the beating's were more severe, turn on the lights in the morning and find mysterious aggressive wounds on them, and they loved to go after the eyes, very upsetting... i lost 2 GATF's due to fighting, resulting in eye injuries, then slower growth rate so others outpaced, then death, but they didnt die from massive wounds, just the stress of constant beatings. Luckily i have 3 now and 1 VATF living in harmony... i think the addition of other fish, keeping a stocked tank, helps the territorial, and thus aggressive fighting between them. Sorry for the loss man, and i know how it feels...

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thanks, this one was smaller, but it was the one that didn't get any lunges so it was straight out of left field. i had the 3 tigerfish, 2 ropefish and an aro in the tank. the tank is a 125gal, with plants. filtration is 2x ehim pro3 filters and a sponge on a powerhead. they had plenty of food and they just got done eating a full feeding the night before and i was in the process of feeding that days food when i saw it and it was fresh. never had any problem before just one day bam and it looks like it was one bite then as it twitched it got hit more. there was no stress to be found in the tank and they often actually shoaled. it could just be i got one that wants to be a loan wolf. i have not been able to seerate them yet i am working on something. the biggest is acting normal(it also was the dominate one from the start at 3") the other is in a dark corner most of the time. i think my big one just snapped like jardini do.

I wonder why people always think they can create an exception to the rule then be upset when it doesn't work out? For monster fish, give what the fish need or be prepared that the fish will create the space they need.


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you wonder that and i wonder why parents let there children on the internet. you dont know anything about me or my setups yet you feel the need to run your mouth..your lucky i am almost banned and i have things to do or you'd be needing a doughnut from the chewing. gandalf in my sig was crying about my chewing of him and another. maybe after you have information about the topic then you can speak. did you know not much information is known on gatf in the wild? things like shoaling and spawning are not known in any detail. any mix of preds has its risk, but the randomness to this attack is what has me baffled. go back to your goldfish and play on your swing set before mommy tells you to go to bed.

That's why I only keep one GATF with 4 VATF. It seems that VATF are more sociable and tolerant of each other than GATFs. They are pushing 5-6" and so far only give each other small nicks when chasing. They're also in a 680g which gives them plenty of space. When I had some 8 inchers in a 150g they used to fight a lot more and had much more severe wounds.

As far as keeping them with other fish. The way I look at it is if they're the most expensive fish that you want to keep why risk their health or safety by having other predators in there with them?

i just have non expsencive fish with them and i was hoping to get 1 gatf and 2 vatf because they looked a little diff in the store when i got them and they grew slightly different. but in the end i got all gatf. they are in a 125gal. and 7-8" or so.

 

[sbuse]

here are the pics. one well placed bite to the spine=dead fish

 

[ecoli73]

thanks, this one was smaller, but it was the one that didn't get any lunges so it was straight out of left field. i had the 3 tigerfish, 2 ropefish and an aro in the tank. the tank is a 125gal, with plants. filtration is 2x ehim pro3 filters and a sponge on a powerhead. they had plenty of food and they just got done eating a full feeding the night before and i was in the process of feeding that days food when i saw it and it was fresh. never had any problem before just one day bam and it looks like it was one bite then as it twitched it got hit more. there was no stress to be found in the tank and they often actually shoaled. it could just be i got one that wants to be a loan wolf. i have not been able to seerate them yet i am working on something. the biggest is acting normal(it also was the dominate one from the start at 3") the other is in a dark corner most of the time. i think my big one just snapped like jardini do.



you wonder that and i wonder why parents let there children on the internet. you dont know anything about me or my setups yet you feel the need to run your mouth..your lucky i am almost banned and i have things to do or you'd be needing a doughnut from the chewing. gandalf in my sig was crying about my chewing of him and another. maybe after you have information about the topic then you can speak. did you know not much information is known on gatf in the wild? things like shoaling and spawning are not known in any detail. any mix of preds has its risk, but the randomness to this attack is what has me baffled. go back to your goldfish and play on your swing set before mommy tells you to go to bed.



i just have non expsencive fish with them and i was hoping to get 1 gatf and 2 vatf because they looked a little diff in the store when i got them and they grew slightly different. but in the end i got all gatf. they are in a 125gal. and 7-8" or so.

Listen kid, if you can't take the least bit of criticism, you should be the one who stays off the net...3 7-8 inch apex predators full of teeth in a six foot tank...the outcome is pretty predictable.


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[exoticfishguy]

It's pretty comical that people try to put a bunch of these together and think they'll live in harmony...doesn't really matter how much food is available...they just want to kill each other!

I tried this many years ago and figured out quickly that is doesn't work.

At least I was sensible enough to separate ad sell them off them before they started killing each other...

That was also when these fish were going for $500-600 a piece!

But I did keep the biggest and meanest one and it is now over 2 feet long...and it doesn't bother any smaller fish in the tank...maybe you have to wait until they are this big to put them together...LOL!

 

[DB junkie]

1 word..... Dithers!

Mixing preds is pretty tough to do without letting them vent. Make them the minority and your chances of them banning together and shoaling goes up. Especially if they have a nice group of fish to pick on. Raising them together definetly seems to help, but in this particular case nothing is gonna help more then dithers, especially if they are bigger. It's hard for them to establish territories worth killing over if there's bigger fish constantly pacing back and forth through it.

I released my Dorado trio in a 180 by themselves and were fine the first few hours. Then they started trying to kill eachother. VERY impressive to watch but not good non the less. They actually chase eachother in circles so fast they become a blur. I removed them and made them a minority amongst a group of larger shiney silver fast swimming fish (Lemon finned barb, silver Aro, and some Brycon and they became friends until I lost one of the 3 amigos to the rays. Now that I only have 2 they do seem to scrap more, but I'll take scrapping over straight killing eachother which is exactly what I bet they'd do if I tossed the 2 of them in a 125 alone.

 

[sashimimaster]

That's a good point. My tin foils just recently starting showing slashes down their side. No doubt from the ATFs. So at least the ATFs aren't slashing each other.

 

[sbuse]

Listen kid, if you can't take the least bit of criticism, you should be the one who stays off the net...3 7-8 inch apex predators full of teeth in a six foot tank...the outcome is pretty predictable.


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first i'll inform you that i am not a kid. second just because you or most say "balh balh this will never work" doesn't mean it can't. aros and gars are a prime example of this and i have no problem doing this mix. most of my risky mixes are caught before anything can happen if they don't work. this one just took one well placed bite from all the teeth to cause to much damage to be fix. the way you put it was what put me on the attack, if you want to criticize do it in different ways, then i wont be so defensive. these fish were showing NO signs of aggression toward each other then this. if there was any fin nipping then i would have separated them, but there was NONE. so it was working till one day it didn't with out warning. you can have sharks in a tank with other sharks and you don't need more then the space these fish had each and have no problems. unless of course you dont consider sharks as apex preds with teeth.

It's pretty comical that people try to put a bunch of these together and think they'll live in harmony...doesn't really matter how much food is available...they just want to kill each other!

I tried this many years ago and figured out quickly that is doesn't work.

At least I was sensible enough to separate ad sell them off them before they started killing each other...

That was also when these fish were going for $500-600 a piece!

But I did keep the biggest and meanest one and it is now over 2 feet long...and it doesn't bother any smaller fish in the tank...maybe you have to wait until they are this big to put them together...LOL!

how do you find it comical when you did it yourself? that is hypocritical sir and it has worked for others so there is a chance it could still work. most likely not with these fish i have now, but another group maybe. i have had a hard time mixing aros, but then i found a group that worked. maybe they have to be large to mix like bowfin and aros, or it could just be that once it is large it doesnt waste its time with small food like a lot of aros.

1 word..... Dithers!

Mixing preds is pretty tough to do without letting them vent. Make them the minority and your chances of them banning together and shoaling goes up. Especially if they have a nice group of fish to pick on. Raising them together definetly seems to help, but in this particular case nothing is gonna help more then dithers, especially if they are bigger. It's hard for them to establish territories worth killing over if there's bigger fish constantly pacing back and forth through it.

I released my Dorado trio in a 180 by themselves and were fine the first few hours. Then they started trying to kill eachother. VERY impressive to watch but not good non the less. They actually chase eachother in circles so fast they become a blur. I removed them and made them a minority amongst a group of larger shiney silver fast swimming fish (Lemon finned barb, silver Aro, and some Brycon and they became friends until I lost one of the 3 amigos to the rays. Now that I only have 2 they do seem to scrap more, but I'll take scrapping over straight killing eachother which is exactly what I bet they'd do if I tossed the 2 of them in a 125 alone.

That's a good point. My tin foils just recently starting showing slashes down their side. No doubt from the ATFs. So at least the ATFs aren't slashing each other.

i was looking at ordering some redtail tinfoils again to fill that void, but it was to late. the lfs can't get them in until 2 weeks from now. i talked to them last week about it in preparation for any possible aggression that could come up with their increase in size. i may just have to have a shoal of vatf if i can find any. i was going for vatf when i got them and wanted only one gatf, but this is how it played out and i tried it. i was feeling it could impload and talked to several people about selling 2 to prevent this. i can have people back me on this. i didn't listen to my gut instinct again and this was the result. i am pissed off at myself. i may still keep one, but i have to think what i want to do and how i want my future tanks/ponds to be.