Hikari Massivore, your thoughts?

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For those of you that feed your predators pellets, hav any of u found a better nutritional sinking pellet than Hikari Massivore Delight?

IMO not only better nutrition wise, but almost half the cost. - NLS 6mm TherA .... $55.00 for a 5lb pail. Also, NLS H20 wafers ..... $50.00 for just under 5lb pail. If your fish prefer floating pellets, they have a 7.5mm floating pellet, again $50 for just inder 5lb's.

Sometimes it can be hard to convert once a fish is hooked on Massivore, but clearly worth the effort.

If you want to save costs further without totally sacrificing nutrition aspects, buy a low cost trout chow and alternate between feeding that, and your main staple.
 
I fully agree with this statement. They do get hooked on Massivore.

On another note, Neil, and not wanting to derail this thread, i remember you defending the 3 mm pellets a couple years ago, even for larger fish.

I feed both the 3 mm and the 7 mm Nls pellets, and find that my monsters prefer the 7 mm. Is there any difference in their ingredients, nutrient mix, whatever?
 
3mm is fine for large fish, but when fish begin to exceed a certain size, or for those fish that prefer larger sinking food items, or floating food, then one has to change things up. IMO there are a number of commercial foods on the market that are just as good, or better than Hikari Massivore, that cost half the price. I could personally never understand why anyone would feed Massivore, unless they were getting the food at wholesale cost, or in their part of the world there was no alternative.
 
I get big bags of massivore at a good price. NLS is very recent in my country and it needs to be mail ordered and all that prepayment stuff. But i have started with it, and keep feeding Massivore also and still find, as said, that is what they are chiefly hooked on.

The largest sinking NLS pellets i have available are the 3 mm. If i had sinking 7 mm in here i would change over completely, i guess, because i am convinced already that Massivore may be too heavy on protein for my CA.
 
Massivore is easily one of the best if not the best foods for monster fish. Only fish I feed NLS to are africans cause of its low protein content. You won't get even close to the same growth rates with NLS as you would with Massivore. Buy the big 5 pound tubs? Only if you can use it all within 3-4 months, the nutrients in fish food begins leaching out of it as soon as you open that container. How healthy are those pellets after a period of 3-4 months? Not nearly as good as they were when you first bought it. You can extend the life of the pellets by freezing them in airtight packets but you'll need a freezer set aside for that. The only NLS food that's really worth the money is the Thera A formulas. So if you're going to feed NLS, I would suggest that pellet over the others.

But then again, if you want great growth rates along with awesome coloration, you should feed Massivore over NLS any day of the week.
 
Massivore is easily one of the best if not the best foods for monster fish. Only fish I feed NLS to are africans cause of its low protein content. You won't get even close to the same growth rates with NLS as you would with Massivore. Buy the big 5 pound tubs? Only if you can use it all within 3-4 months, the nutrients in fish food begins leaching out of it as soon as you open that container. How healthy are those pellets after a period of 3-4 months? Not nearly as good as they were when you first bought it. You can extend the life of the pellets by freezing them in airtight packets but you'll need a freezer set aside for that. The only NLS food that's really worth the money is the Thera A formulas. So if you're going to feed NLS, I would suggest that pellet over the others.

But then again, if you want great growth rates along with awesome coloration, you should feed Massivore over NLS any day of the week.


Low protein content? Most "monster" fish do not require 50% protein, and 10% crude fat once they past their growth stage of life. Unless perhaps one is only feeding 3 times a week, which the vast majority of hobbyists do not. The largest freshwater carnivores in North America, Acipenser transmontanus (White Sturgeon), are raised commercially exclusively on pellet food that typically consists of 40-45% crude protein, and exceed both size & weight of the vast majority of all tropical fish kept in captivity. We're talking about fish that reach 8-10ft in captivity. Is that "monster" enough for you? lol

Listening to some people the commercial fish industry would have never existed, had Hikari not created Massivore a few years ago. LOL Think about it. Commercial fish farms spend millions of $$$ on raising fish, and the largest cost of every farm is their feed costs, where feed conversion ratios, and growth, are everything. Most hobbyists also don't consider that the protein & fat listed on tropical fish foods are listed as minimum quantities, not maximum amounts, or for that matter even typical values. Unless you are privy to what takes place behind the label, you don't have the slightest clue as to what those values are. There are plenty of monster fish including cichla, channa, lungfish, aros, rays etc that have been raised on NLS along with LOTS of other foods on the market, long before massivore was created. I didn't even mention the most potent NLS pellet, the 10mm Mega Fish formula as most people don't have fish large enough to easily consume them.

As far as nutrient loss, I have seen test results from food containers (buckets) that have been kept in storage (room temps in the mid 70's) that show minimal losses over a 12 months period. Mostly vitamin c content, but that is easily controlled by using stable forms of vitamin c such as L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate, and reinforcing the amount when considering loss during manufacturing, and storage. If stored in a cool, dry, environment, the nutrient loss over a 12 month period is minuscule, and most of the loss is the vitamin c. Amino acids (protein) and fatty acids don't just leach out of food within a few months.

If you are happy in paying twice the amount of $$$ on a name, by all means feel free to do so. The OP was asking for different less costly options, without sacrificing nutrient value, which is precisely what I gave him.

I'm not in the least bit interested in going 'round in circles on a subject that most hobbyists barely understand, or getting into another Hikari vs NLS brouhaha. Been there, done that.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?284825-Hikari-vs-NLS


To the OP, best of luck with your fish.
 
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Best place to buy 5 lbs of NLS?
 
Low protein content? Most "monster" fish do not require 50% protein, and 10% crude fat once they past their growth stage of life. Unless perhaps one is only feeding 3 times a week, which the vast majority of hobbyists do not. The largest freshwater carnivores in North America, Acipenser transmontanus (White Sturgeon), are raised commercially exclusively on pellet food that typically consists of 40-45% crude protein, and exceed both size & weight of the vast majority of all tropical fish kept in captivity. We're talking about fish that reach 8-10ft in captivity. Is that "monster" enough for you? lol

Listening to some people the commercial fish industry would have never existed, had Hikari not created Massivore a few years ago. LOL Think about it. Commercial fish farms spend millions of $$$ on raising fish, and the largest cost of every farm is their feed costs, where feed conversion ratios, and growth, are everything. Most hobbyists also don't consider that the protein & fat listed on tropical fish foods are listed as minimum quantities, not maximum amounts, or for that matter even typical values. Unless you are privy to what takes place behind the label, you don't have the slightest clue as to what those values are. There are plenty of monster fish including cichla, channa, lungfish, aros, rays etc that have been raised on NLS along with LOTS of other foods on the market, long before massivore was created. I didn't even mention the most potent NLS pellet, the 10mm Mega Fish formula as most people don't have fish large enough to easily consume them.

As far as nutrient loss, I have seen test results from food containers (buckets) that have been kept in storage (room temps in the mid 70's) that show minimal losses over a 12 months period. Mostly vitamin c content, but that is easily controlled by using stable forms of vitamin c such as L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate, and reinforcing the amount when considering loss during manufacturing, and storage. If stored in a cool, dry, environment, the nutrient loss over a 12 month period is minuscule, and most of the loss is the vitamin c. Amino acids (protein) and fatty acids don't just leach out of food within a few months.

If you are happy in paying twice the amount of $$$ on a name, by all means feel free to do so. The OP was asking for different less costly options, without sacrificing nutrient value, which is precisely what I gave him.
So you're saying that you only have to feed a few times a week with high protein products, that sounds great and mirrors natural feeding patterns anyways. No need to get super defensive over NLS, like I said, I use both NLS and Hikari. Thera A happens to be the only NLS formula that's worth its cost and it's the only one I would bother feeding to my fish and only to my Africans at that. I've tried the hikari vs nls growth formula for fry/ juvi jags at around .75-1" before with the same water change routine and saw a significant difference in growth rates. After a month the hikari fed fry had put on about another inch on average and the largest of the nls fed fry was barely the size of the smallest hikari fry. Better nutrition for growth? Hikari easily takes the cake with actual results.

Again, there are things that NLS is great for. If a fish is prone to bloat or is primarily a plant/algea eater then NLS is great because of its low protein content and you can almost guarantee that you'll never get deaths due to bloat while feeding NLS. But again, Thera A is the only NLS formula that's really worth its weight in gold because it also helps keep fish free of internal parasites.

Want to grow a monster fish to its fullest potential? Go with Massivore, there's really nothing out there than can beat it at getting bulk and just overall size out of a fish. Just look at the most impressive specimen on this forum, most of them were raised on a diet that had Massivore as the staple pellet. And, as stated earlier, because Massivore is so high in calories and protein per pellet, you can cut down on feedings once your fish attains its adult size and only feed it 3-4 times a week or every other day as opposed to feeding it every day and it'll still maintain its size and continue to grow even bigger.
 
^ Very much appreciate your feedback. Alternative options to Massivore exactly why I posted this thread. I'm in kno way partial to any brand of food, (couldnt care less if its Hikari, New Life Int, nutrifin, etc) just been using massivore for long time since my predators accept it so readily, go crazy for the stuff. Bout best food for predators I can buy off the shelves in my area are Massivore and nls, but $28-34 for less than a pound of food is steep. 5lbs of NLS still b way cheaper than Massivore i buy almost every week, tho there no stores in my area that hav 5lb bags/buckets of any fish food. So maybe I'll start searching online for other equivalent bulk commercial foods that r cheaper per pound, and available in larger weight packages. My fish love Massivore, but I kno I can switch them to eat other kind of food with some time and effort. Hav done it many times in past, can do it again. Thanks again :thumbup:

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^ Very much appreciate your feedback. Alternative options to Massivore exactly why I posted this thread. I'm in kno way partial to any brand of food, just been using massivore for long time since my predators accept it so readily, go crazy for the stuff. Bout best food for predators I can buy off the shelves in my area are Massivore and nls, but $28-34 for less than a pound of food is steep. So maybe I'll start searching online for other equivalent bulk commercial foods that r cheaper per pound, and available in larger weight packages. My fish love Massivore, but I kno I can switch them to eat other kind of food with some time and effort. Hav done it many times in past, can do it again. Thanks again :thumbup:

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Yeah, I've heard of people feeding their fish commercial trout growth pellets with success and even dog food. Maybe the fish based foods like the White fish or Salmon dog food? Who knows? Imo, the switch would only be worth it if you're feeding lots of monster fish and don't care too much about long term health effects or hormones in the food.
 
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