VATF Suicide Head Trauma

[Chicxulub]

The general consensus seems to be that armatus are much more owner responsive.

I'll weigh in on this. I've put a lot of thought into this subject.

When considering the personalities of ATF, I genuinely believe their behavior can be trained. ATF have incredible situational awareness and superb vision. They are also quite intelligent. When you combine those factors with the fact that these fish are prey when small, they tend to be rather (and understandably) flighty.

I've experimented with this to see if I could overcome it. I feel as though I have. The answer for me seems to be putting my brand new, 3-5" baby ATF in a 20L with an Aqueon 900, AquaClear 70 and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I set up the filters to work with each other to give strong flow. I then let the fish get VERY hungry; I don't feed him for a week or two. After that, I'll drop in ONE pellet/worm/prawn etc per day. The fish will, in short order, begin to associate me with food and overcome their flightiness.

Now, my prized BATF will actually hand feed. I've also had success with this method on BATF, FATF and TATF. I've not tried it with VATF or GATF, but I see no reason to assume that it wouldn't work.

Tell me this six inch BATF doesn't behave differently than your run of the mill young ATF:

[video=youtube_share;nwRo5IYUkZQ]http://youtu.be/nwRo5IYUkZQ[/video]

 

[DB junkie]

Thanks Al,

West1's VATF is what got me into mine. Might take you up on that free fish, only a 4-5 hour drive to the border. Now you have my interest peeked.

My grow outs aren't moving anywhere unless they decide to commit suicide also or become a ray chew toy. That or they decide to kill each other off.

Either way I will enjoy them while I have them-----> IN WITH MY RAYS.

I have enjoyed a fish I call me security fish for years now.

I've kept Armatus. Time and time again. I'd be foolish to think that randomly I'll have one year after year. So what happens when the last of the group of them die? I go feed my security fish. I watch him pace back and forth relentlessly swimming non stop. Watch it accelerate into the food and stop on a dime. Will it greet me? Yup. Will it beg for food? Yup. Will it stay the hell away from rays? Yup. Have I ever read any instances where one of these fish smashed itself dead into the side or top of the tank? Nope.

My security fish is Dorado. Can't judge them based on looks, have to get to know them

I know there's mean ones. But there's also nicer ones. I have both, and I also have Robert. I don't need 3 Dorado. The nicer one is in with my Odoe now, MBU is also in there. NO issues whatsoever. Don, he's yours if you want him. I have a family outing May 3 at some lake on the IA/MO boarder. I'll even drive further south to meet you.

 

[DB junkie]

The general consensus seems to be that armatus are much more owner responsive.

I wouldn't say one is "more responsive" any predatory fish that gets used to being fed is going to act like that......

My Armatus don't act any different then my Odoe, Gatf, Tatf, or Vatf when it comes to feeding, as they are all young yet, but eventually they will all become more interactive.

 

[ShadowStryder]

I have enjoyed a fish I call me security fish for years now.

I've kept Armatus. Time and time again. I'd be foolish to think that randomly I'll have one year after year. So what happens when the last of the group of them die? I go feed my security fish. I watch him pace back and forth relentlessly swimming non stop. Watch it accelerate into the food and stop on a dime. Will it greet me? Yup. Will it beg for food? Yup. Will it stay the hell away from rays? Yup. Have I ever read any instances where one of these fish smashed itself dead into the side or top of the tank? Nope.

My security fish is Dorado. Can't judge them based on looks, have to get to know them

I know there's mean ones. But there's also nicer ones. I have both, and I also have Robert. I don't need 3 Dorado. The nicer one is in with my Odoe now, MBU is also in there. NO issues whatsoever. Don, he's yours if you want him. I have a family outing May 3 at some lake on the IA/MO boarder. I'll even drive further south to meet you.

Thanks Al, I will email you and we can continue Robert there.. Got another question about the armatus also.

As for as the Armatus and ATF skittishness, I had my VATF 3+ years literally fed almost everyday. He would regularly swim the tank but when you first walked up to the tank he would go to the back then start swimming again. He never did come to the front of the tank waiting to be fed. Maybe it was a personality thing I cant say.
With the Armatus I can walk right up to the growout tank (55) and they will come to the front glass waiting for food, they are still a little pissy when they realize its not feeders but are eating frozen foods now if not grumpily doing so.

I just know its nice when a fish comes begging for food. I can be working in my tank and the rays will swim up to my hands trying to find food. I have seen people do the same with large Armatus and would like to do the same with them.

Rob I couldn't play the video even at you tube.:-( might be my new phone though.

 

[ShadowStryder]

Rob, Just got on the home PC and watched the video. Thats great, haven't seen an ATF hand feed before. So that just tells me I didn't take the time to train him when younger. (Which I didn't)
Wont make that mistake with the Armatus. In fact I am going to go venture out in the new snow and get me some crawlers.

Thanks

 

[DB junkie]

My Armatus act similar to my ATF at feeding time. My Armatus have been on dead/pellets for months. I cut the tilapia up right over the tank. The first one to eat every time is the lil guy behind the driftwood. The biggest who hangs out in the open hardly ever even acknowledges me, and is usually last to eat.

I really think it's all in how you work with them, but I think in the case where comparing Armatus to ATF the Armatus has the instant advantage as they are more stationary lurkers waiting for something to go above them then they spring into action, so they're always waiting, watching. Seems to me ATF will avoid the walk up as they're usually already on the move instead of just sitting there, instinct is to swim away, double back and go investigate while the Armatus just sits eyeballing.

I only have 1 fish that will almost try to get through the glass like rays do when you walk up and just hold your hand on the tank, and that's Lucy my Lacerdae. She was handfed by the previous owner since she was just a lil bugger.

Really think it's just how much you work with them.......

 

[keepinfish]

My Armatus act similar to my ATF at feeding time. My Armatus have been on dead/pellets for months. I cut the tilapia up right over the tank. The first one to eat every time is the lil guy behind the driftwood. The biggest who hangs out in the open hardly ever even acknowledges me, and is usually last to eat.

I really think it's all in how you work with them, but I think in the case where comparing Armatus to ATF the Armatus has the instant advantage as they are more stationary lurkers waiting for something to go above them then they spring into action, so they're always waiting, watching. Seems to me ATF will avoid the walk up as they're usually already on the move instead of just sitting there, instinct is to swim away, double back and go investigate while the Armatus just sits eyeballing.

I only have 1 fish that will almost try to get through the glass like rays do when you walk up and just hold your hand on the tank, and that's Lucy my Lacerdae. She was handfed by the previous owner since she was just a lil bugger.

Really think it's just how much you work with them.......

You should get us non believers a video of Lucy behaving
I still dont see the attraction to them! But you and others really seem to talk about them! Its tough for any non ray fish to get me like armatus.

 

[West1]

I really think it's all in how you work with them, but I think in the case where comparing Armatus to ATF the Armatus has the instant advantage as they are more stationary lurkers waiting for something to go above them then they spring into action, so they're always waiting, watching. Seems to me ATF will avoid the walk up as they're usually already on the move instead of just sitting there, instinct is to swim away, double back and go investigate while the Armatus just sits eyeballing.
I only have 1 fish that will almost try to get through the glass like rays do when you walk up and just hold your hand on the tank, and that's Lucy my Lacerdae. She was handfed by the previous owner since she was just a lil bugger.

Really think it's just how much you work with them.......

During feeding my big boy would dash high level from side to side till I got close, then he would glide along the face of the tank and meet me so he could just stare at me. He had a cool look of fearless. Surprised yours don't do this?
I wish I had found a better home for him, but he would scare the crap out of me everytime(from threads like this).

Hats off to you Al for donating a prize fish, not very many members would give a show piece to even a friend.

btw, I'm glad others enjoyed him as much as I did

 

[DB junkie]

You should get us non believers a video of Lucy behaving
I still dont see the attraction to them! But you and others really seem to talk about them! Its tough for any non ray fish to get me like armatus.

It's cause I gave up on Armatus..... lol. I loved them more then anything. Maybe it was the crazy pursuit, as back then it was back and forth with G on a daily basis trying to get my hands on one (less then 10 had been imported at this time), but after the 3rd time I was sick of them, the love to let down was enough to start looking for something else.

I wanted a fish I didn't have to worry about. I have hypertension. The last thing I need is reasons for my blood pressure to get higher then it already is. I didn't see pics of Wolves and feel anything like I felt for Armatus, but thought what the heck, anythings worth a try. Got an Aimara, and still didn't feel much for the lil guy till it almost seemed to start "protecting" the rays. It would dart to the front of the tank like a guard dog, yet never showed aggression to the other fish, just me. Even when rays would pin him and steal the food, never would it even flare it's gills at the rays, yet stick a net in there and game on!

I'll start a new thread on the wolves, I don't want to keep derailing this thread, but I'll tell you there's definitely something to the bigger hump head wolves. No different then comparing Scombs and Raphs to Armatus. Same family, totally different fish.

 

[DB junkie]

During feeding my big boy would dash high level from side to side till I got close, then he would glide along the face of the tank and meet me so he could just stare at me. He had a cool look of fearless. Surprised yours don't do this?
I wish I had found a better home for him, but he would scare the crap out of me everytime(from threads like this).

Hats off to you Al for donating a prize fish, not very many members would give a show piece to even a friend.

btw, I'm glad others enjoyed him as much as I did

Thanks E, BUT Robert (my brassy Dorado) IS a prized fish that won't be going anywhere, so I can't take much credit, but I DO have a few extra Dorado, and I consider Don one of my closest internet fish friends, so why not!? LOL

How old was your ATF when it started doing this kind of behavior? Maybe mine just aren't old enough yet? That or they enjoy punking the Gatf so much they just wait for him to go after food then go torment him..... lol

Hey, if it wasn't for you and Don I wouldn't even have ATF. So hats off to you too for that!!!