are these good quality fh fries ???

[kookiejar2]

This is what you need to prove.

No I don't, because that was in response to your comment..... I asked you something, and you couldn't ANSWER it. Instead you started defending your classroom genetics knowledge!

When the parents are low quality, but there may be good quality genes in the gene pool, there is a chance however slim, that some fry will turn good quality. For that you need to see signs/ hints of the recessive desirable gene traits in those small percentage of fries. And when that chance is a matter of shelling out $4 compared to $100 plus, we experienced hobbyists take that chance!... And with experience we do pick up stunners for as little as a few dollars.

Now answer my first question to you..... If you can, that is!

 

[DDK]

What did I say here?

This is one of the breeders I have good relations and he once told me starting with a good quality parents will yield about 1/3rd or near 1/2 quality fry ready to sell at the prices I bought them at and starting with low quality fh's will yield low quality fh's at an abundant amount with very minimal chance of any sorts of a stunner. By the looks the genetics just aren't there for any stunners.

But I totally agree about taking a shot in the dark as why would I play the lotto every week haha.

Did i not say there is a chance? Second page the quote you replied to.

Here first quote on page 3

Genes are basically instructions inherited from the parents. Half the fathers and half the mothers, if a fh's parents dont have koks their off springs wont have koks. Simple as that, your brown and your parents are brown for an example. You dont see purple kids running down the street do you? Back on track, anything that is multicelluar is predestined to be what it is from the parents genes. Sure there could be a differ combination that lead to different looking offspring but its all within a scope local to its own possibilities.

Answered? Now answer yours. I never said its not possible for any stunners but it is very minimal and its always with respects to its own scope. Go check the quotes I never edited any of them.

 

[kookiejar2]

What did I say here?


Did i not say there is a chance? Second page the quote you replied to.

Here first quote on page 3


Answered? Now answer yours. I never said its not possible for any stunners but it is very minimal and its always with respects to its own scope. Go check the quotes I never edited any of them.

Where did you answer my question?!!
Okay let me repeat..... In my first post, I put up a pic of a FH and asked you if this at 6 inches is low grade?...... Which was in response to your comment, "No kok, washed out colors, weird body shape, and the fins look more of a parrot fish".......

So, go back to my first post and answer that!

 

[onefowl1]

So before we keep bashing each others ideals and opinions on this let me restate this. The OP posted pics of a batch of fry asking for our opinion of them then posted 1 picture of the parents head on shot only at least when i looked last. We can see that they had minimal kok on them and the female looked short body confirmed by the short body fry pictured. We can see some of the color on them and that is about it. So for anyone to say they are low grade just from that is just opinion and that is it. No one asked the OP what they wanted in a fh other than about the short body trait. The op has said they did not want sort body fish. So that left a few nicely pearled normal bodied fry that looked to maybe fade. A comment was made about them being poor or low quality because they had no kok and were washed out in color. It was stated that the fry were 1.5 inches and less. At this size i would not expect them to display much color or kok that we expect in a larger juvenile or adult fish. Both of these traits have as much to do with diet, water quality and age as genetics. Again as i stated before "Not everyone wants a large water KOK on their FH" If that is what you like great but do not say someone elses FH is low grade because it has a smaller hard type kok. I personally think some of these fry have an amazing amount of pearling for being so small and young, at least much more then an average fh at this size.
So to recap all this none of us can really give an honest opinion of the parents because we have not seen pictures from any angle but head on other than the fact they do not show much kok at the time of photo and the female looks short body. Depending on what the OP wants in their FH the fry may provide it or they may lack it. So maybe the OP needs to offer up what they are wanting in a fish or we need to ask them instead of bashing each other on their thread.

 

[kookiejar2]

So before we keep bashing each others ideals and opinions on this let me restate this. The OP posted pics of a batch of fry asking for our opinion of them then posted 1 picture of the parents head on shot only at least when i looked last. We can see that they had minimal kok on them and the female looked short body confirmed by the short body fry pictured. We can see some of the color on them and that is about it. So for anyone to say they are low grade just from that is just opinion and that is it. No one asked the OP what they wanted in a fh other than about the short body trait. The op has said they did not want sort body fish. So that left a few nicely pearled normal bodied fry that looked to maybe fade. A comment was made about them being poor or low quality because they had no kok and were washed out in color. It was stated that the fry were 1.5 inches and less. At this size i would not expect them to display much color or kok that we expect in a larger juvenile or adult fish. Both of these traits have as much to do with diet, water quality and age as genetics. Again as i stated before "Not everyone wants a large water KOK on their FH" If that is what you like great but do not say someone elses FH is low grade because it has a smaller hard type kok. I personally think some of these fry have an amazing amount of pearling for being so small and young, at least much more then an average fh at this size.
So to recap all this none of us can really give an honest opinion of the parents because we have not seen pictures from any angle but head on other than the fact they do not show much kok at the time of photo and the female looks short body. Depending on what the OP wants in their FH the fry may provide it or they may lack it. So maybe the OP needs to offer up what they are wanting in a fish or we need to ask them instead of bashing each other on their thread.

2 points:

1. Amazing pearling at that size! One with a good body shape, for $4 is highly viable....
2. One head shot of the parents and authenticating them as low quality is a bit silly. Breeding discoloration is always a possibiliity... The red on the male may have extended to a desirable length over the body... May be the body shape shows promise.... Who knows!

So those who have actually bred FHs would not be as obtuse as the guy hollering about not spending money, energy on a mystery fish. Experienced hobbyists, out of hundreds of fries as posted by the OP, will pick up a future stunner. Not much of a 'mystery' fish as much as having an experienced eye!

 

[DDK]

Where did you answer my question?!!
Okay let me repeat..... In my first post, I put up a pic of a FH and asked you if this at 6 inches is low grade?...... Which was in response to your comment, "No kok, washed out colors, weird body shape, and the fins look more of a parrot fish".......

So, go back to my first post and answer that!

I would rate that a 4-5 out of ten. I personally don't really care much for faders. See how much easier this could have been if you answered my question?

What are you exactly trying to say? I don't think you have any understanding of what were talking about. Are you saying that fish is a stunner of two genetically underlined parents? Posting a picture and saying "so this is low grade?!" has no relevance what so ever. Post pics of the parents if that's what you implying? Its like your going to court and you have no argument but only the wanted outcome. Please read, makes all our lives a bit easier.

You replied.

So your understanding about gene is that it starts and stops at the parents only!!.... Very limited knowledge that is!

Leading to the debate about genes.

You said

You REALLY need to go back to college!

Does grandparents' gene.... Great grandparents' gene ring anything to you?!!! Or you just want to talk big about your genetics class in college.
I know what I said, and a few guys with an actual knowledge about FH breeding would know that fine! NOT you unfortunately..... So good luck with your genetics education that says gene is only passed through the father and mother....

You have to understand the grandparents genes are also in the mother and father which I stated here.

Ok i'll simply disprove EVERYTHING you said. Are the grand mothers and grand father's genetics in the mothers and fathers genes? YES OH MY! WOW SOME EDUCATION YOU RECEIVED! So when I say the half the mothers and half the fathers its implied the grandparents genes without saying.

It should have been known without saying. If one is to imply half from the mother and half from the father it comes with their grandparents genes without saying.

you state

Firstly, you don't know what the phrase 'non visually expressive gene trait' means. Secondly you just saw a pic of the offsprings and the low quality parents and assumed that you know everything about the gene pool traits!!

Which are recessive genes that I have talked about 2-3 times in this thread. Here

You say you know people who breed flowerhorns and I call bull @#$!. Ask any breeder the one way to get quality fry and they will tell you start with two quality fh's. Not shooting in the dark hoping the grandparents traits recessive traits will pass through resulting in a very minimal chance of any quality fh's which yield's no profit.

and here

Having recessive red hair is a 25% chance gene, the child will NOT have red hair unless the other partner is carrying the recessive gene. Same concept yet with fh's as they were bred so much within their own family and also others outside the family starting with two lower quality fh's will almost positively yield low quality fry with the exception to a very minimal degree.

Please dont call recessive genes 'non visually expressive gene trait' because you just made that up. That doesnt even make sense in the English language. You English is very broken and hard to understand, there are no preposition words and subjects are all over the place making it nightmare to read your posts.

It should be "So is this a low grade at 6 inches?" rather than what you wrote "So this at 6 inches is a low grade?" The subject should be first and then you need a preposition word such as is as its a third party. You're not the fish, you're talking about the fish.

 

[DDK]

So you got my answer a 4-5 on a scale of ten for me. Now what is the relevance of showing that picture and having me grade it? There's a general consensus to grading as the majority hates a huge monster kok but likes a decent one showing. Color has to be there for everyone and fin/body shape is arguable. The only reason I rate it high is the color. Now you received your answer so why did you ask me this?

 

[kookiejar2]

I would rate that a 4-5 out of ten. I personally don't really care much for faders. See how much easier this could have been if you answered my question?


You replied.


Leading to the debate about genes.

You said


You have to understand the grandparents genes are also in the mother and father which I stated here.

It should have been known without saying. If one is to imply half from the mother and half from the father it comes with their grandparents genes without saying.

you state


Which are recessive genes that I have talked about 2-3 times in this thread. Here

and here


Please dont call recessive genes 'non visually expressive gene trait' because you just made that up. That doesnt even make sense in the English language. You English is very broken and hard to understand, there are no preposition words and subjects are all over the place making it nightmare to read your posts.

It should be "So is this a low grade at 6 inches?" rather than what you wrote "So this at 6 inches is a low grade?" The subject should be first and then you need a preposition word such as is as its a third party. You're not the fish, you're talking about the fish.

I'm perfectly fine with my English! I have an honours in the language.....

"So this (fish on the pic; example of being a tacit phrase/word) at 6 inches is a low grade?" is perfectly fine.... May be a bit polished for your understanding! Tsk...Tsk....

When you are done talking about our language proficiency, we'll talk fish again..... And chances are you could pick up a few tips talking to guys with actual knowledge!

 

[onefowl1]

I will also say this " Just because a master breeder says It takes to high quality fish to produce fish as nice it is not always the truth." Remember we are talking about their source of income that they depend on. Does one really expect them to let all know how they produced them? Telling us would be potentially cutting their own throat. Do not get me wrong as i am not saying it is easy or does not matter which fish one pairs together because it does. Remember this as well that even MP FH came from humble origins and through careful selection and hard culling over many generations were they produced. Also many of these MP are still so new that most are sterile in the males and a portion of the females as well. On these breeding farms each spawn may produce over a 1000 fry and from these only a small number make the cut to be offered for sale and maybe only one or two prove to be MP FH. If they were produced in greater percentages in each brood batch they would not bring the prices they do. Most of us do not have the space, time and money to raise a whole spawn to decent size to grade them for these few select fry. Instead we take a gamble that we can get a few in the ones we select to raise up or the ones we pick out of someone elses like the OP is doing with these. Others may not have the time or space so pay for the select specimens at premium price these top breeders produce. Each method has its merits and risks and it is up to the individual which is for them.

 

[onefowl1]

Look this is an international forum and the order we put our words in depending on where we are varies with ones main language so lets not insult one on that. I am a horrible speller and hope one does not discard anything i post because of that as it would be ignorant. I can promise you on the subject we are having that with most of the top breeders english is not their first language including their written sentence structure.