Switched from prime to safe- dead fish

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
I tend to stand water for a few days or use RO, I also have a non RO water purifier, i try hard to avoid chemicals in the tanks.
Chloramine does make a difference yes, I can post links yet but the following patents have alot of info in about dechlorinators. Note i dont think these are the ones i mentioned regarding Tetra's view on Seachem Prime.

Also note the patents are far more professional (from a science stance) than some of the rather poor ones from Seachem. I should also point out Seachem brought the patents for alot of their products.

Patent number US 7,244,358 B2

Patent number US 2008/0073291 A1

Both should give you information on Chloramines. I hope this assists you in some way.
 
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RD. said:
Where exactly does Seachem state any of that, Doc? I have tested both products many times over the years, never once seen a pH increase, or an increase in NH3. I'm pretty anal about this stuff, so feel free elaborate.
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As i cant post links yet, i will posts quotes from the patent (Seachems Patent). For confirmation you can google the patent /patents's.


Regarding PH

I think the product is buffered, depending on the size of Aquarium and depending on amount added, would dictate how much if any of a change you would see. The information is in other companies patents, they tend to be more detailed than Seachems own, however Seachems DOES state that the product is ALKALI, clearly adding any Alkali (particularly a relatively strong one) would increase PH, depending on amount added.

My main concern however would be the amount that oxygen was consumed in the reaction with Bisulphates.

Anyway take a look at the patent, i tried to upload it but i cant upload pdf's?? the patent number is EP0203741A2 just google it is easiest.
 
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RD. said:
At 3.7 chloramine you better be damn certain to use a water conditioner, especially with larger water changes (over 10%) no matter what anyone tells you on a fish forum.
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A more sensible approach is to read as much as you can, i dont mean forums but scientific papers etc. That way you can make an informed decision for yourself. Dont be fooled into thinking that these companies have your interests at heart ;)
 
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The other thing to keep in mind is the group of chemicals Seachem use are also used as photographic developers! I know some people seem to worship Seachem, but to me it dosnt make sense to put something that has been used as photographic developer into an aquarium, i personally would prefer to live with a tiny amount of chloramine.

The developer claim can be verified by reading patent number
US4022621A

Sorry i cant upload the files, i had intended to post the files but cant.
 
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Doc-Fish said:
The other thing to keep in mind is the group of chemicals Seachem use are also used as photographic developers! I know some people seem to worship Seachem, but to me it dosnt make sense to put something that has been used as photographic developer into an aquarium, i personally would prefer to live with a tiny amount of chloramine.

The developer claim can be verified by reading patent number
US4022621A

Sorry i cant upload the files, i had intended to post the files but cant.
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Hello; Welcome to the forum by the way.
 
Sorry Doc, but unless you have some peer reviewed info countering what my own eyes have shown me for many many years, I am calling BS. Seachem water conditioners do not alter the pH, even when performing massive water changes in the 80-90% range, which is common practice for myself and many others who like myself have decades of hands on experience with these products. Also, as I recall the ONLY way that free ammonia (NH3) would ever be released back into an aquarium after dosing with Prime or Safe, is of the pH was raised to a ridiculous amount, such a pH 12+. So a non issue for 99.999% of the worlds population.

So if that's all you got amigo - as a professional (if you are?) you would be better served doing some homework before you start trash talking about a company such as Seachem, on a public forum. I have corresponded directly with the CEO/President of Seachem several times over the years, and Dr. Greg Morin (also their head chemist) has always come across as a stand up guy in my books. No BS, no broken promises, and no oversell on his product line. I do not always feel the same about some of Seachems reps, and have been pretty outspoken regarding some of their comments over the years. So not blinded by the light, in any way shape or form.

And FYI - the "photographic developer" used in water conditioner is sodium thiosulfate, a very harmless chemical used to reduce chlorine, and has been used in aquaculture for many decades. Unless this is your first day out in the real world, or you have some kind of hidden agenda and are looking for a knee jerk reaction from the masses, you should have already known that.
 
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RD. said:
Sorry Doc, but unless you have some peer reviewed info countering what my own eyes have shown me for many many years, I am calling BS. Seachem water conditioners do not alter the pH, even when performing massive water changes in the 80-90% range, which is common practice for myself and many others who like myself have decades of hands on experience with these products. Also, as I recall the ONLY way that free ammonia (NH3) would ever be released back into an aquarium after dosing with Prime or Safe, is of the pH was raised to a ridiculous amount, such a pH 12+. So a non issue for 99.999% of the worlds population.

So if that's all you got amigo - as a professional (if you are?) you would be better served doing some homework before you start trash talking about a company such as Seachem, on a public forum. I have corresponded directly with the CEO/President of Seachem several times over the years, and Dr. Greg Morin (also their head chemist) has always come across as a stand up guy in my books. No BS, no broken promises, and no oversell on his product line. I do not always feel the same about some of Seachems reps, and have been pretty outspoken regarding some of their comments over the years. So not blinded by the light, in any way shape or form.

And FYI - the "photographic developer" used in water conditioner is sodium thiosulfate, a very harmless chemical used to reduce chlorine, and has been used in aquaculture for many decades. Unless this is your first day out in the real world, or you have some kind of hidden agenda and are looking for a knee jerk reaction from the masses, you should have already known that.
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For a short time i thought you knew what you were saying, actually Thiosulphate is a fixer not a developer ;).

If you understand basic chemistry, simply read the patents. I will add others that also give the chemical formulas, you cant fake a chemical formula! But as i am new, i will indulge you and get some peer reviewed references.

And yes i am a professional (not sure how thats relevant) with a great many years experience. I didnt intend to trash but simply give additional information, i started the reply i gave because i am aware Seachem has this strange cult like following.
 
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