Planned goldfish tank

[Hybridfish7]

I was planning to get a goldfish tank. My idea was:
- 30-40 gallon tank with 2 goldfish.
- plants that are safe for goldfish.
-sump system.
-Panda butterfly telescope goldfish with either calico thai oranda or red and white butterfly telescope.
I have some questions:
-how big do thai orandas get? I know orandas can get a decent size, but I don't know what strain of oranda the sites I went to were talking about. I do know however that the giant strain gets well over a foot. Anybody know about thai orandas and how big they get?
I might just scrap the idea of the oranda and just get a red and white butterfly telescope.
What tank size would be better? I always see "for fancy goldfish have 20 gallons for one fish, 10 more gallons for each extra" and also "3 gallons per inch"
I know goldfish make a mess in their tanks...

If anything I can just get one goldfish in a 20-30 gallon. will a single goldfish be happy by itself?

 

[itrebebag99]

There really is no definite size that goldfish will get. A goldfish's size is controlled almost entirely by it's environment and very little by genetics. For example, goldfish grow much more in large bodies of water compared to small ones, warm bodies of water compared to cold ones, highly oxygenated as opposed to stagnant, etc. I would imagine that the large fancy goldfish you were referring too was probably kept in a very large, warm tank, or pond, with lots of water changes, heavy feeding, etc. Under normal circumstances they most likely would not get that big.

A 30-40 gallon tank will be perfectly fine for a few goldfish. I do not believe that goldfish, or most aquarium fish, would really get lonely if kept by themselves...

 

[J. H.]

Single goldfish do fine and can live to a ripe old age, but they prefer company. The best idea for plants is to put in a lot of fast growing ones so the constant chewing isn't an issue. The butterflies might be fancy enough to be kept with any plants - it's a matter of luck and how fancy the goldfish is, as the fancier ones don't really eat plants and snails and little fish. I don't know about thai orandas. I do know some orandas will get big and some won't grow over three or four inches. I think it has to do with water quality and genetics.

 

[Hybridfish7]

I also refined the idea... again...
a bamboo forest type aquascape with one or two panda butterflies.
as for plants I was just thinking of java moss and bamboo. maybe some nano petite anubias.
how many gallons would you recommend for 2 butterflies? 30?
i was also thinking of adding around 3 panda garra just for algae control. would those add extra gallons onto the tank because of the space they need or...

 

[J. H.]

I also refined the idea... again...
a bamboo forest type aquascape with one or two panda butterflies.
as for plants I was just thinking of java moss and bamboo. maybe some nano petite anubias.
how many gallons would you recommend for 2 butterflies? 30?
i was also thinking of adding around 3 panda garra just for algae control. would those add extra gallons onto the tank because of the space they need or...

I have successfully kept Christmas tree moss with plant-hungry common goldfish, and Java Moss is almost the same thing, it should be fine. I hope you intend to use lucky bamboo, not real bamboo, as real bamboo will just rot. Even lucky bamboo will need to be grown emergent, but they are supposed to be goldfish proof. Emergent plants are really good about eating nitrate, so bioload won't be such a worry, if you have enough of them you will never get a nitrate reading,although you still should do the occasional waterchange anyway. I wouldn't even put a filter on this tank, just a substrate and either a little sponge filter or powerhead to keep things moving. Goldfish don't like a lot of flow, and the substrate and plants should be all the bio you need.I would pick a tank with a footprint of at least 12" x 36", just so that the goldfish will have room to swim around, whether you have one goldfish or five. The panda garra will complicate things a lot. (I have never kept them, so take this for what it's worth) The goldfish may eat them, they may suck on the goldfish's slime coats, and they may even need a heater, but I don't think they will cause space problems, as long as they have caves to be happy in, as goldfish aren't territorial or anything like that. I would chose some kind of pest snail, if you want an algae eater, just make sure your colony is big enough to survive some goldfish snacking, but with enough plants, you may never get any algae.

 

[Hybridfish7]

Thanks for the info!
I do intend to use lucky bamboo, about 8-10 stalks.
and just like you said with the 30 x 12 footprint, yes I will be getting a tank around that size.

 

[Kittiee Katt]

Just for the record a standard oranda can reach 20cm or so when cared for correctly.

Also, goldfish are dirty, messy fish with a decent bioload. Good filtration and lots of water changes will be needed.

As for goldfish liking buddies, I have a pool outside with goldfish in it (fantail x comet hybrids), they're almost always swimming in a group. For goldfish the more the merrier.

And, may I suggest maybe getting a wider tank if you're planning on getting more than one goldie? I feel like two fat fancy goldfish would look cramped in a 12" wide tank once they got around the 6-7" mark, but this is just personal opinion.

 

[J. H.]

Just for the record a standard oranda can reach 20cm or so when cared for correctly.

Also, goldfish are dirty, messy fish with a decent bioload. Good filtration and lots of water changes will be needed.

As for goldfish liking buddies, I have a pool outside with goldfish in it (fantail x comet hybrids), they're almost always swimming in a group. For goldfish the more the merrier.

And, may I suggest maybe getting a wider tank if you're planning on getting more than one goldie? I feel like two fat fancy goldfish would look cramped in a 12" wide tank once they got around the 6-7" mark, but this is just personal opinion.

Emerged plants with good lighting will chew through nitrates and leave you with a nitrate deficiency and stunted plants in no time. I have a 10g with Xmas moss, +/-16 adult guppies and a Praecox rainbow that never registers nitrate, thanks to some coleus, wandering jew, and english ivy stuck in its HOB. It has been up for 10 months, give or take, and I only change water if I feel like it. I agree a wider tank may be better, but I don't agree that "a standard oranda" exists. You don't know how big it's going to be until it's at least a year old. And I have kept equally sized baby goldfish in the same tank, from the same source, and some will grow and some just won't.

 

[Kittiee Katt]

but I don't agree that "a standard oranda" exists. You don't know how big it's going to be until it's at least a year old. And I have kept equally sized baby goldfish in the same tank, from the same source, and some will grow and some just won't.

While I agree 100% (this is the case for almost all goldies unfortunately) I feel like its safer to give a max potential size than to say "it might stay small!" Oranda goldfish CAN (and probably will) get quite large so I figured it'd be better to point that out than the fact that it "might not grow" to someone whose experience I know nothing about.

If the OP is an experienced keeper then it matters not, if the OP is an inexperienced keeper it can make all the difference.

 

[Hybridfish7]

i agree with what you said: (J.H.)
"I don't agree that "a standard oranda" exists."
I talked about it a bit in another thread, but yeah there are MANY strains/crosses of orandas.
The ones I can think of:
-orkin (oranda x tosakin)
-japanese line orandas (the fan tailed you see in chain petstores a lot, they were bred to be viewed from the top that's why they don't really look that good in the tanks)
-thai orandas (bred to have a deep body, long fins, and a big fluffy tail)
-yuan bao/ingot orandas (short tailed or short bodied orandas)
there are also strains of giant thai orandas that can get over 12"