100% water changes

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Hawkfish - you are correct. Ammonia is not a product of respiration. It is a product of protein metabolism.

I think what nomadofthehills may have been getting at is that ammonia can difuse directly from the blood supply into the water in the gills. So it's not being excreted in one large dump (like urination), but is instead constantly being excreted through the gills. Since the gills are also used for gas exchange, this may lead to some confusion about ammonia being a product of respiration.
 
So it would be correct to say that ammonia is released during gill function, not respiration. I get it.
 
Pufferpunk;1814369; said:
I disagree. What about breeders doing all those constant water changes then?

Many discus breeders have very little effective biological filtration since their tanks are at a low enough pH that bacterial metabolism is inhibited and ammonia and nitrites never get broken down into nitrates. That's why they have to rely on constant water changes to keep these factors in check. Since the bacteria aren't doing much in the first place in these setups, they don't have to worry about large WCs negatively affecting the bacterial loads.

That being said, I agree with Pufferpunk - large water changes are not really a problem if they are done properly.

Ok Xander, here goes:

Theoreticaly, 100% water changes are not a problem IF the new water is identical as far as temperature, pH and chemical composition goes and they are done regularly. The reason that they usually are a problem is that very few people can really keep all these factors constant between their tank and the tap. So the larger the water change, the greater the probability that you're going to have a swing in one of these factors.

Differences in pH will alter the toxicity of ammonia (among other things), will alter the metabolism of nitrifying bacteria, and can also influence the pH of the fish's blood which will cause stress. Differences in temperature will alter the solubility of oxygen in water. Both temperature and pH will influence the efficiency with which hemoglobin in the fish's blood can bind and release oxygen (if interested, look up the Bohr effect).

Even if large water changes are done properly, controlling for the above factors, constant large water changes will eventually result in a reduced nitrifying bacterial populations since you are artificially lowering their food sources, but as long as you keep up the water changes that's fine. If you suddenly stop doing the water changes bioload will probably increase faster than the bacteria can re-establish themselves and you'll end up with an ammonia/nitrite spike.

Detailed enough for you?
 
Game Over.

the_deeb wins.
 
the_deeb;1817861; said:
Hawkfish - you are correct. Ammonia is not a product of respiration. It is a product of protein metabolism.

I think what nomadofthehills may have been getting at is that ammonia can difuse directly from the blood supply into the water in the gills. So it's not being excreted in one large dump (like urination), but is instead constantly being excreted through the gills. Since the gills are also used for gas exchange, this may lead to some confusion about ammonia being a product of respiration.


Right, I was typing too quickly- the nitrogenous waste is diffused out of the body from the gills.
 
the_deeb;1817910; said:
Many discus breeders have very little effective biological filtration since their tanks are at a low enough pH that bacterial metabolism is inhibited and ammonia and nitrites never get broken down into nitrates. That's why they have to rely on constant water changes to keep these factors in check. Since the bacteria aren't doing much in the first place in these setups, they don't have to worry about large WCs negatively affecting the bacterial loads.

That being said, I agree with Pufferpunk - large water changes are not really a problem if they are done properly.

Ok Xander, here goes:

Theoreticaly, 100% water changes are not a problem IF the new water is identical as far as temperature, pH and chemical composition goes and they are done regularly. The reason that they usually are a problem is that very few people can really keep all these factors constant between their tank and the tap. So the larger the water change, the greater the probability that you're going to have a swing in one of these factors.

Differences in pH will alter the toxicity of ammonia (among other things), will alter the metabolism of nitrifying bacteria, and can also influence the pH of the fish's blood which will cause stress. Differences in temperature will alter the solubility of oxygen in water. Both temperature and pH will influence the efficiency with which hemoglobin in the fish's blood can bind and release oxygen (if interested, look up the Bohr effect).

Even if large water changes are done properly, controlling for the above factors, constant large water changes will eventually result in a reduced nitrifying bacterial populations since you are artificially lowering their food sources, but as long as you keep up the water changes that's fine. If you suddenly stop doing the water changes bioload will probably increase faster than the bacteria can re-establish themselves and you'll end up with an ammonia/nitrite spike.

Detailed enough for you?

:clap:clap:clap

yes that's great thanks. i just wanna add that im not usually like this, it's just that when you start a thread seriously wanting a proper answer, and you get some jokers making fun of it in a completely non-contributal way, it forced me to get them out of here.

but yes, that's the answer i was looking for. thanks!
 
Even if large water changes are done properly, controlling for the above factors, constant large water changes will eventually result in a reduced nitrifying bacterial populations since you are artificially lowering their food sources, but as long as you keep up the water changes that's fine. If you suddenly stop doing the water changes bioload will probably increase faster than the bacteria can re-establish themselves and you'll end up with an ammonia/nitrite spike.

What would you consider to be "constant? Because at 90% weekly & a fairly overstocked tank, I have never had any of those issues occur.
 
Pufferpunk;1819531; said:
What would you consider to be "constant? Because at 90% weekly & a fairly overstocked tank, I have never had any of those issues occur.

90% on a heavily overstocked tank, on a weekly basis will be fine.
 
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