3-Bars Indo or ST? Part 2

[T1KARMANN]

No need to get bent out of shape for no reason. I was just implying that you seem to have alot of experience with Dats, and from the numbers you gave us here you have some success in keeping them healthy and thriving, I was just curious about the smileys........nice dats !

not bent

everyone has their own idears on the diffrences with tigers

for me the ones everyone gets mix up with are ST,CT and IT

AT,NGT,NTT are easy to spot the diffrence

the diffrences with ST,CT are not that easy to spot unless you know what you are looking for slight diffrent banana yellow color stipes not that even or straight they are a bit wavey and some have a half moon shape on the tail stripe

 

[jcardona1]

T1 you really seem to know you dats!! Unlike a lot of other people, you use COMMON SENSE when trying to ID a dat. And all this hobbiest vs. expert crap is pure BS. People wanting to find someone who has scientifically studied these fish for years better wake up and smell the tuna!!

 

[T1KARMANN]

T1 you really seem to know you dats!! Unlike a lot of other people, you use COMMON SENSE when trying to ID a dat. And all this hobbiest vs. expert crap is pure BS. People wanting to find someone who has scientifically studied these fish for years better wake up and smell the tuna!!

i had a bad tiger habit in the past and it was harder to shake off than any drug habit

i can only state what i have seen from the tigers i have kept

i had a whole tank full of what i would now class as CT all of them had sort of wavy stripes and the stripe that goes throw the eye nearly stopped at the eye

it wasnt until i started to replace then with what some would class as just better grade ST that i started to see the diffrences

hears a pic of my tank full of CT if you look closely you will see the half moon shape on all of their tails and the stripes are just not that black or neat

 

[jcardona1]

Yeah, after reading your posts here and on sticky's other thread, the differences between a CT and ST are pretty clear, especially the bright yellow color and jagged stripes. I always thought they were poor quality ST's. I had heard about CT's but didnt know exactly what they looked like or how to tell them apart. All I had ever seen was this ID chart that I found here on MFK and I think somebody had mentioned that CT/ST's were the same and the names were used interchangeably...

 

[varanio]

T1 you really seem to know you dats!! Unlike a lot of other people, you use COMMON SENSE when trying to ID a dat. And all this hobbiest vs. expert crap is pure BS. People wanting to find someone who has scientifically studied these fish for years better wake up and smell the tuna!!

I dont really think anyone is looking for scientific descriptions, theories, etc etc etc..... I think most just want a popular opinion as to what others with more experience might think about their recent purchase or a fish in question. T1 seems to have more experience in identifying which is which since he has been keeping them for a long period of time. So there is no real BS going on here, just people looking for reasurance. Common sense I dont think plays a very big role here and the reasons why is because alot of members are newer to the scene and dont have 6-7 yrs experience identifying with many specimens to gain experience from. T1 is a great resource in this sub forum, if I had a dat in question I would ask for his opinion.

 

[StIcKy~RiCe]

I really like this thread due to there are many opinion and point of view in here. IMO i don't really think anyone is an expert, However I do think some of you are very knowledgable to know what you guys talking about. Keeping dats for years and be able to know the different of odd bar and body shape of dats are pretty dam good.

The bottom line is Dats are great fish.....I just wish that ST,CT, IT, NGT, NTT or what name you call it....i wish all cost the same.

 

[JD7.62]

I agree, and though I dont have any real background on studying fish, I have some good friends that do. My best mate is getting his masters in fisheries management and I only use this as an example to explain my self. Anyone who is any scientific field will find it laughable that some one can ID a fish such as an ST/IT/CT (made up terms anyway!) from a photograph.

Will anyone here really worth their .02 try to ID a spotted vs a florida gar from a pic? NO!

Yes, in MOST cases, the differences are EASY to spot. In some, this case, it is not as obvious. If a few of you are too ignorant to understand that a person who has NO EXPERIENCE other then observing the OUTSIDE of a fish in a glass box can definately ID some thing as controversial as this...needs to {edited by staff}
D.pulcher and D.microlepis could STILL BE the same fish. They were not too many years ago. I want to see some real data like scale and ray counts. There is a reason biologists dont study LIVE fish. COLOR and pattern means nothing. Yes it may for $$ its worth but as this and other threads have pointed out, some people here prefer an ST over an IT even if it doesnt look like as nice as the IT

T1, is a GREAT and experienced hobbyiest. I would take his advice ANYDAY of the week on the care of my rays/dats. The point is not that. The point is; these fish can very well be either species and none of us here can say with any validity what species they are from a photo!

Funny how people in other fish can understand that concept, but "dat heads" cant! lol

I still would like to find some scientific literature written in English on these guys. Its just not out there.

 

[T1KARMANN]

when i first got into tigers 6-7yrs ago i knew nothing and went out and got a 3 bar IT i didnt care what it was it was nice and stable

then i sat down and read a thread on arofanatics that was 700 pages long

their was alot of crap in that thread but i learnt alot then started shopping for tiger back then you could still get 2-3inch ST if you knew what to look for and they were still cheap the big 14inch ST i have now i paid £25/$50 and he was 2-3inch and NGT were costing £100/$200 at 2-3inch

the 1st batch of what i thought were ST were CT they just didnt look as good as the ST i was seeing on arofanatics

their are expets out their Marshy who is a member hear know a lot of things about tiger and i respect him alot as i learnt a lot from him also popok who i would love to get in contact with again

tigers are the same as any other fish if it looks nice buy it if not walk away

their is no point buy a tiger just because it ST if its dam ugly

they made a craze out of 2nd rate ST when surpplys of good grade small ST started to get low and called them patchy ST they were just bad grade ST that would not normally sell in the market

the body paturns on NTT,NGT,AT dont really change that much but with ST,IT the way the tiger looks is very important

if you want my opinion i would much rather a traditional looking IT over a IT that you are hoping is a ST a traditional IT looks class

 

[jcardona1]

I agree, and though I dont have any real background on studying fish, I have some good friends that do. My best mate is getting his masters in fisheries management and I only use this as an example to explain my self. Anyone who is any scientific field will find it laughable that some one can ID a fish such as an ST/IT/CT (****ing made up terms anyway!) from a photograph.

Will anyone here really worth their .02 try to ID a spotted vs a florida gar from a pic? NO!

Yes, in MOST cases, the differences are EASY to spot. In some, this case, it is not as obvious. If a few of you are too ignorant to understand that a person who has NO EXPERIENCE other then observing the OUTSIDE of a fish in a glass box can definately ID some thing as controversial as this...needs to roll over and smell his momma's tuna.

D.pulcher and D.microlepis could STILL BE the same fish. They were not too many years ago. I want to see some real data like scale and ray counts. There is a reason biologists dont study LIVE fish. COLOR and pattern means jack ****. Yes it may for $$ its worth but as this and other threads have pointed out, some people here prefer an ST over an IT even if it doesnt look like as nice as the IT

T1, is a GREAT and experienced hobbyiest. I would take his advice ANYDAY of the week on the care of my rays/dats. The point is not that. The point is; these fish can very well be either species and none of us here can say with any validity what species they are from a ****ing photo!

Funny how people in other fish can understand that concept, but "dat heads" cant! lol

I still would like to find some scientific literature written in English on these guys. Its just not out there.

Variano, THIS is what i was talking about...

And JD, I notice in your sig that you're looking for an ST. Just curious, since nobody can seem it positively ID one of these, how are you gonna know its an ST? Are you gonna take him to your best mate and have him count the scales and spines and taste its feces to see if its a real ST? How are you gonna know? What if you end up getting an IT?

Gimme a break

 

[varanio]

Variano, THIS is what i was talking about...

I cant speak for him bro, but I would benefit from reading a few scientific papers on them so that I can be more aware of things that happen in their natural habitat. How breeding takes place, when it takes place, locality data, how enviornmental factors play a factor and habitat loss, and of course our awesome hobby on wild populations. Those are things that would be interesting, I could care less about stripes....unless it directly affects some morphology issue. But there is too much clutter about that right now, and that would be the last of what I would want to learn. Im pretty confident I can identify the differences, but you never know. As T1 mentioned if youre somewhat apprehensive about what it is walk away there is that choice.