330 gallon setup and sump build

[eddiegunks]

J jaws7777

Do you have two drains that connect into one pipe? ie. Do you have two 1 inch drains connected together into a 1 inch line, with a valve on the line after the "T" connector?

If so then you can only flow the max of a 1 inch pipe. (600 gph i think). And it would be much harder to adjust the flow so it is quiet AND get the maximum flow. If this is how you are doing it why run two drains at all, as it only flows the rate of one pipe. It would have been easier,cheaper, and less complicated to run one drain.

Is this how you have it set up? If not please explain.

Thx

 

[jaws7777]

J jaws7777

Do you have two drains that connect into one pipe? ie. Do you have two 1 inch drains connected together into a 1 inch line, with a valve on the line after the "T" connector?

If so then you can only flow the max of a 1 inch pipe. (600 gph i think). And it would be much harder to adjust the flow so it is quiet AND get the maximum flow. If this is how you are doing it why run two drains at all, as it only flows the rate of one pipe. It would have been easier,cheaper, and less complicated to run one drain.

Is this how you have it set up? If not please explain.

Thx

Dont want to derail jvc's thread but i respectfully disagree.

Like i stated earlier. 2 x 1.5 inch drains, connected to 1 gate via a tee, then tee'd off again and run to 4 socks.

U may be right about getting more flow from seperate gates but im pretty sure a 1 inch pipe under full siphon runs much higher than 600gph...im almost certain its near 2k gph. That being said i ran both pumps on their highest setting (3170x2) when i 1st set the tank up and the setup had no problems handling the flow.

Why do you think it would be any quieter running sperate gates or easier to adjust ? I never adjust my gate and the system is totally silent. Sure when the water in the sump drops a significant amount it also lowers the level in the over flow increasing the noise level but it would do the same even if i ran multiple gates

 

[jvc66]

Always awesome when members help each other out.

I wash my socks in the washing machine with a little bleach. Ley them air out for a few days then consider them good to go. The residual bleach gases off. duanes can better explain.

No the fish movement wont cause you to have to adjust the valve. Adding decor or bio...whatever will....maybe...lol deoending on how much u add and i would think how large the overflows are would play a role... i added some.large rocks a few months ago and needed to open the valve a little havent touched it since. My guess is it increases the volume in the sump which effectd the overflows tank volume will always be the same as long as its not exceeding what the overflow/siphons can handle.



I disagree at least for how we are applying them. You could be right with getting more flow from two seperare valves but imo as long as the E drains can handle what you want the flow to be... your good.

Im running two dct12000's on setting 5 so around 1800gph each and two 1.5 inch siphons. The gate is barely opened and its dead silent. If course its lower given headloss but im not concerned with the actual numbers. I kind of judge by two things...does ditritus settle on the bottom and is my turnover enough to keep ammonia at undetectable levels.

When i 1st set the tank up i did all sorts or tests and even on setting 10 (3170 gph each pump) the 2 siphons/1gate worked fine.

My next sump will more than likely be a herbie with two gates but thats only because i have two laying around lol

yea i have no idea why it fluctuated like that. The smaller overflows are very sensitive to change. I need to rig something together for covers on the sump since I am loosing water do to humidity. Its running a little low now. Im going to fill it up tonight again and need to fix my auto top off. Lost power the other day and screwed the whole thing up and keeps beeping

 

[eddiegunks]

J jaws7777

I did not think this derails the original posters thread. He is talking about filtration and set up. And he has the drain style we are discussing. And he is having minor issues. I think the discussion goes hand-in-hand.

If the original poster would like me to start a new thread I would be happy to do that. (With my apologies. But I started this line of questioning after I looked at his drain set up and reading the minor difficulties he was having. )

I was only going off the posted flowchart rates. I to discovered that my 2 inch drain is flowing for more than the posted rate, under full siphon. (What good are thise flow charts then....?)

What I've learned from my last build was this, next time I will make one drain in the overflow box higher than the other. My goal would be to make the drain that goes to to siphon be higher in the overflow box to help Curtail falling water noise inside the box. I hope to limit the amount of falling water noise in the drain that's at full siphon, letting the other drain pick up the excess.

Having two separate drain lines would allow the Full siphon run full, and then you could use the other one with a valve to make minor adjustments to get it exactly the way you need it. I think you could get away with two separate lines and only having one valve, but two valves would be nice because then you have the option to also control the amount that flow for full siphon if you need it to.

Again, the underlying question is why run two separate drains that tee into one exit pipe ( if they are all the same size drain)? It just adds additional plumbing because You could get away with one drain, as it's going to flow the exact same amount of water.

If the answer is you want to have it draining from two spots on the aquarium to aid in surface skim etc. etc. then why not plumb those individual lines to the sump, individually, and skip the tee? There would be no significant additional cost, and the benefit would be you are have the option of turning over the system more often per hour. And, if you installed the valves as i meantion above you could regulate it with endless options.

Thanks for the interesting discourse.

 

[eddiegunks]

Why do you think it would be any quieter running sperate gates or easier to adjust ? I never adjust my gate and the system is totally silent. Sure when the water in the sump drops a significant amount it also lowers the level in the over flow increasing the noise level but it would do the same even if i ran multiple gates

View attachment 1264957

Two observations.

If you ran two separate gates in individual lines with no tee, you could effectively Lower you are siphon in rate as the gate would restrict the flow.
As noted in my above post you could raise the height of your dream to offset the falling water noise. And each overflow could be individually controlled with their own valve.

Beautiful plumbing on your picture. My question would be why not just run those drains down into the sock directly? why do you bring them down turning 90, With a valve on each one that van runs into a tee, then a second tee, then out to the socks with new 90s? You could've just put a tee on the line dropped it right in the socks and been done. Giving you ultimate valve control and a higher flow rate.

One final request, could you come to my place in glue my pipes? you're far better than I am. They look awesome!

 

[jvc66]

Two observations.

If you ran two separate gates in individual lines with no tee, you could effectively Lower you are siphon in rate as the gate would restrict the flow.
As noted in my above post you could raise the height of your dream to offset the falling water noise. And each overflow could be individually controlled with their own valve.

Beautiful plumbing on your picture. My question would be why not just run those drains down into the sock directly? why do you bring them down turning 90, With a valve on each one that van runs into a tee, then a second tee, then out to the socks with new 90s? You could've just put a tee on the line dropped it right in the socks and been done. Giving you ultimate valve control and a higher flow rate.

One final request, could you come to my place in glue my pipes? you're far better than I am. They look awesome!

The thing is I did raise the height of the stand pipe for my emergency drain and did not have an issue for a week until my girlfriend plopped in the bags of fish yesterday. No clue why it was an issue but I resolved the water trickling down the emergency drain by adjusting the gate valve. You probably have a little more control and more flow with two seperate valves then I do. My external overflow boxes are extremely sensitive and take a lot of time to properly adjust just a hair to much in one direction will cause it to come down the drain or crash in to the box.

And I see what your saying. Thinking about it now I could have just brought it down and teed it off . Would have been a bit easier to build probably but I also like being able to adjust one valve which adjusts a whole system

This is my first sump and first time plumbing a tank so still a learning experience. I like it so far my only quarrel is my filter sock holders that are most likely going to be changed out to twentyleagues earlier suggestion.

But thanks for the compliment! would you believe it was my first time plumbing a tank? I am very anal when it comes to symmetry and looking clean so I think that plays a part in it. But ill come glue as long as there is beer!

 

[jaws7777]

Two observations.

If you ran two separate gates in individual lines with no tee, you could effectively Lower you are siphon in rate as the gate would restrict the flow.
As noted in my above post you could raise the height of your dream to offset the falling water noise. And each overflow could be individually controlled with their own valve.

Beautiful plumbing on your picture. My question would be why not just run those drains down into the sock directly? why do you bring them down turning 90, With a valve on each one that van runs into a tee, then a second tee, then out to the socks with new 90s? You could've just put a tee on the line dropped it right in the socks and been done. Giving you ultimate valve control and a higher flow rate.

One final request, could you come to my place in glue my pipes? you're far better than I am. They look awesome!

Again i have to ask why do you THINK 2 valves vs 1 would be any quiter ? I have no noise issues lol my ac110 is louder.

I already stated that i could see getting more flow out of two gates but i dont need 8k gph i wanted to be under 4k. Also stated thst i ran both pumps at full throttle totaling over 6k not accounting for headloss so definitly is lower but again worked like a charm.

I think your reading the flow chart wrong 1 inch pipe is listed at 600 gph under gravity fed only...meaning not full siphon. Under full siphon its over 2k. At 1.5 inch under full siphon with two gates sure you can get almost 8k gph...but who needs that on a 300 gal ? No one i know of

Why i built it the way i did:

1) I didnt want to dial in two gates.
2) not enough room between the stand and bottom of the tank to run a gate valve and a ball valve plus unions on the siphon line going from the bulkheads.
3) because other members said 1 gate vs 2 siphons cant be done while i know it can because ragin_cajun and other have don it.

 

[ragin_cajun]

2 siphon drains into a single gate valve most assuredly works, and works very well. Jaws and I both did it, using designs from members before right here on MFK who also did it. That's a proven design that is known to work....which is why we used it.

I like having a single gate valve because it is one single place to set the drain rate of the siphon drains. One single adjustment to make.....and then forget about for months and months. I don't want to sit under the display adjusting 1 gate valve, then going to the other side and adjusting the second one, then going back to the first on to adjust that one, and getting 2 different valves set right for silent flow. Also, I don't want to have 2 valves when one will do. Pipe, T's, and elbows are cheap and reliable. Gate valves are a little more expensive.

 

[jaws7777]

Same question now as i had in the past for those that say it doesnt work. What are you basing it off of ? Hands on experience or simply an opinion ?

 

[eddiegunks]

J jaws7777
ragin_cajun

Hold on a minute guys. I never said that it would not work.

I was making an observation that the original poster was having troubles and I thought maybe this would solve his problems very easily.

I trust that you can do what you're doing. Clearly it works. Clearly you're using it. All I'm saying is that I run each drain into the sump directly. I run one near full siphon no valve ( I have adjusted my air intake on this one to slow the flow slightly. So it is not running full. I did this to alleviate gulping. ). I run the other one to the sump with a valve. So I'm adjusting one valve.

I have adjusted my valve one time with the initial set up, and I have not touched it since.

I have 125 gallon tank and I'm running a Danner 1200 pump. 1 inch drains. Three-quarter inch return.

No matter what I do in my tank when I start to pump it goes back exactly the way it was set originally. I can add fish, Driftwood , rocks, my arm, turn the pump on turn the pump off. I have not had to adjust anything after the initial day.

Can you please point me in the direction for the flowchart for pipe sizes at full siphon? I really need to see that chart. Thank you