A little thread on using supplements with rays

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Doesn't the power you add desolved in waterif it does when you add it to food the dump the food in the water doesn't it devolve meaning you lose load of the powder in the water


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Doesn't the power you add desolved in waterif it does when you add it to food the dump the food in the water doesn't it devolve meaning you lose load of the powder in the water


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T1 if this is directed at me the answer to that is no it does not. Just like gelatin holds a blended home made food together the powder also has something in it that binds the food together. If it would dissolve then that means everything else that has vitamins added to it we feed our fish would also dissolve the second it hits water. Let me go thru my videos I have of feeding them with this added to their food and I will post them.

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Agreed but I also had another female with them that took the longest for me to convert to pellets and she is still the smallest 9.5 inches and a touch older but a little different of a breed as she is pure mantilla and the other is 3/4 mantilla. So ya I understand what you are saying but I just wonder if it had anything to do with it.


One thing to consider in that situation is that female rays will out grow males very quickly and be much larger as adults. I've had females end up almost twice the size of males in the same litter on the same diet in the same water.



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A quick question regarding supplements and pellets. I feed pellets (Hikari & NLS) in addition to their primary diet of raw fish/shrimp. Would the right balance of stingray specific nutritional supplements mixed with pellets provide a good balance of nutrition for a ray to live a long healthy life?
Would the fat content be too high or are their too many fillers and additives in Hikari & NLS pellets to make it a viable long term option.

There is no need to supplement vitamins/minerals to any decent quality pellet feed, such as NLS. Anyone that tells you otherwise is talking out of their arse. Fish keepers (including ray keepers) have been supplementing raw for many years, with various commercial products (Vitachem, Selcon, etc-etc) - no need for fancy (read overpriced) designer foods that are "supposedly" specifically made for elasmobranchs. What a farce. Mazuri = Purina, a company whose products I personally wouldn't feed to my dogs, cats, fish, or anything else. I posted my thoughts about Mazuri's ray gel food on page 3 of this past discussion.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?392397-Best-Builder-Food-for-rays

You previously stated;

"Mazuri also makes a great Shark/Ray gel diet that is very well matched to nutritional needs of 99% of the elasmobranch species kept today."


I just finished looking at the specs of that food, and I honestly don't see anything that hasn't already been accomplished (and then some) with some of the more premium pellets on the market? Other than perhaps it being more palatable to a fish due to the gel texture when mixed, what else should I be wowed by?

http://www.mazuri.com/PDF/5C8X.pdf

Quite frankly there are pellets on the market that exceed that nutrient profile by a country mile. Mazuri uses only 1 main source of amino acids (fish meal) and 1 source of aquatic plant matter (spirulina algae meal) and that's supposed to be impressive?

Compared to a food that uses Antarctic krill meal, herring meal, squid meal, along with algae meal (that consists of seaweed, kelp, and several micro-algae) AND spirulina, and micronutrient (vitamin/mineral) levels that exceed the Mazuri formula that you speak so highly of?

And yet you feel that a company such as Purina Mills makes a great Shark/Ray gel diet that is very well matched to nutritional needs of 99% of the elasmobranch species kept today?

And how exactly does that work? By limiting their source of amino acids to 1 form of fish meal (most likely a generic fish meal, seeing as they don't list the species source?) and 1 source of aquatic plant matter? (spirulina meal) and the rest of their formula consisting of commercially made vitamins, trace minerals, antioxidents, and color enhancing agents? This is what you consider an ideal diet for a stingray?

They state: Contains Carotenoids for antioxident potential and pigmenting properties - yet what do I see but none other than Carophyll Pink in the ingredient list, a cheap man made petro chemical based color enhancing agent used by the salmon industry to supply artificial color to the flesh of a fish. By the order of ingredient listing, it also appears to contain a significant amount of ethoxyquin, another man made chemical used as a preservative, and not something that most consumers want to see large amounts of, in any commercial food.

While I realize that Purina has been around a long time, they aren't exactly known for being on the cutting edge of fish nutrition, and a quick scan of their other commercial aquaculture foods should make that fairly obvious. There's a reason why a 50lb bag of Purina fish food can be purchased for under $25.00

And exactly how are these products made specifically made for elasmobranchs? Does someone at Purina reckon they know the exact nutrient requirements of all the various rays kept in captivity? Are you freaking kidding me?

I posted the following in the last nutrient discussion, anyone care to answer this?

We know that in the wild rays feed on a number of foods, including molluscs, crustacea, aquatic insects, as well as shrimp & fish. But can anyone here state what the OPTIMAL nutrient ratio of these *natural* foods are? Anyone? What about in the different stages of growth, and within the various different species of rays? Can anyone tell me what the metabolic requirements are for rays kept in captivity? Are there long term feed trials that have taken place with captive rays that prove what the ultimate diet is for hobbyists who keep rays in home aquariums?

If one cannot tell me with 100% certainty what the ideal amino acid, lipid, fiber, vitamin & mineral profile should be of the feed they give to a ray on a regular (or non-regular for those who mimic seasonal variations in their tanks) basis then this entire debate is a moot point.


I'm not saying that one shouldn't supplement a raw diet, in fact I have recommended just that for many years, but I personally don't believe that one has to use overpriced species/genus specific pills/powders etc to do so. And this isn't about pellets vs raw, it's about nutrients vs nutrients, and science vs science, and not falling prey to marketing hyperbole.
 
I thought it was going well and being informative. Until thus. Thanks for starting it and sharing. I will appreciate knowing how it all keeps going for you. Thanks again for all the informative information

Here we go with another trashed thread.:thumbdown:

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So now what?
If your rays are on pellets, no need for supplements?
OK
But if I can't get my rays to eat pellets, I should consider some kind if vitamins that are good for them.
Then again, if I feed my rays all different kinds of frozen foods, is supplements still needed?
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I will not claim to be an expert or know all but will share what I feel to answer your questions. If you are going to feed frozen only I would add a supplement in with it. For me personally I like doing a mix of frozen foods and pellets for all the extra vitamins and minerals that the pellets have in them and thus no need in my opinion for supplements. I want to research the level of vitamins in my pellets vs a supplement. Every single ray can get converted to pellets of some type and once they get going you can feed them any type. It does take allot of time and effort sometimes but it can be done, ive had some very picky rays but they all love pellets at this point. Mine and their favorite is the 10mm nls and allot of people look at that as a hard pellet to train rays to eat but its accepted great in my tank.


So now what?
If your rays are on pellets, no need for supplements?
OK
But if I can't get my rays to eat pellets, I should consider some kind if vitamins that are good for them.
Then again, if I feed my rays all different kinds of frozen foods, is supplements still needed?
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So now what?
If your rays are on pellets, no need for supplements?
OK
But if I can't get my rays to eat pellets, I should consider some kind if vitamins that are good for them.
Then again, if I feed my rays all different kinds of frozen foods, is supplements still needed?
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Who says that if as long as your ray takes pellets their is no need for supplements?

I would still add supplements to their diet no matter how big a variety of frozen food they eat.

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