A Petsmart Red Texas 6 months later

[00rollins]

LOL. What the hell are you guys talking about. You cannot use the concept of wild specimen generation and play along side by side with hybrids. In the world of hybridization, it is played throughout a family tree. Not in a concept of their captivity.

I'm going to set a quick and short example of understanding the concept of hybrids breeding in terms of generation usage.
ZZ x BP = F1
ZZ x F1 = F2
F2 x KML = F1(the reason is it is now out of its linage)

I agree f terminology can be used for the discription although it generally is not, but the x you are using as a referance means nothing if the fish doesn't display the exepted standart, set by the original breeder.

To become f0 it means you would have consistant results, fry will grow up to look like the standard. The line bred result of the x you mention. Crossing any of those fish stated above will give mixed result in fry making them hybrids again not the standard.

You must have f0 before you can have f1

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[gamerpond1]

LOL. What the hell are you guys talking about. You cannot use the concept of wild specimen generation and play along side by side with hybrids. In the world of hybridization, it is played throughout a family tree. Not in a concept of their captivity.

I'm going to set a quick and short example of understanding the concept of hybrids breeding in terms of generation usage.
ZZ x BP = F1
ZZ x F1 = F2
F2 x KML = F1(the reason is it is now out of its linage)

first off you have no idea what a filial generation is so hit the text books dude and f1 is the first of to different species or a mix of the same bach of fry of the same species and an f2 is further inbreeding and this concept started out in livestock such as bovine and equistrians

 

[BIG_ONE]

I agree f terminology can be used for the discription although it generally is not, but the x you are using as a referance means nothing if the fish doesn't display the exepted standart, set by the original breeder.

To become f0 it means you would have consistant results, fry will grow up to look like the standard. The line bred result of the x you mention. Crossing any of those fish stated above will give mixed result in fry making them hybrids again not the standard.

You must have f0 before you can have f1

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There's no such thing as a standard when it comes to hybrids, in the fish world. This is exactly how line bred and generation within the fish is determine whether it is in Malaysia, Taiwan, China, Vietnam, or Thailand. If you put it in your perspective, your playing the wild specimen card with hybrids, which usually never goes together and will never can. In the hybrid world, the F0 is any fish that is drawn out and away of its line. In other words, new project parents will BE the F0.
Everything in hybrids will have a mix result, because what? They're hybrids of course. But that doesn't mean that the linage of what your trying to create as a project in a whole disappears. It's not suppose to look like the parents when you throw in the family tree line of generation within the flowerhorn world. Reason is? It's always a project to create something else you wanted, with a steady genetic of a specific unique look and trait.
Example:

Golden Apple Gen 1, 2, 3
Tan King Gen 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
KGM Gen 1, 2, 3
SML Gen 1, 2

And a lot more there is to list upon it.

 

[BIG_ONE]

first off you have no idea what a filial generation is so hit the text books dude and f1 is the first of to different species or a mix of the same bach of fry of the same species and an f2 is further inbreeding and this concept started out in livestock such as bovine and equistrians

Again, don't play the text book of purity within the hybrid world of flowerhorn. Doesn't work that way...anymore.

 

[00rollins]

I see, I was mixing my knowledge of horticultural breeding. I could be wrong in many of my statements pertaining to genetic lineage as I have not studied in ant depth in this field.
From my previous understanding you can create a new exepted breed by hybridization when resulting offspring display consistent traits, opposed to f1 showing a mixture or traits leaning twords one of the parents.
Like how dogs are exepted individual breeds all hybridized for specific traits by humans. I was thinking that the f0 was this exepted new standard or breed the way it is with plants and other hybrids, so a poodle and a beagle don't make a puggle untill they are bred to an exepted standard

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[BIG_ONE]

I see, I was mixing my knowledge of horticultural breeding. I could be wrong in many of my statements pertaining to genetic lineage as I have not studied in ant depth in this field.
From my previous understanding you can create a new exepted breed by hybridization when resulting offspring display consistent traits, opposed to f1 showing a mixture or traits leaning twords one of the parents.
Like how dogs are exepted individual breeds all hybridized for specific traits by humans. I was thinking that the f0 was this exepted new standard or breed the way it is with plants and other hybrids, so a poodle and a beagle don't make a puggle untill they are bred to an exepted standard

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In the dog world of breeding, you would be exactly correct. I have bred dogs for a few years according to standing with AKC and UKC. But since fish in a whole have so much in them, you will never get one that look exactly alike. Maybe similar, but not nearly the same. According to my studies of fish genetics along with the Department of Fish and Game in California. Fish genetic tends to be weaker, and only stable if bred with its own specimen and kind. Once you start crossing and hybridizing, they will throw out all sorts of weird looking mutilated fish. Which is why you see flowerhorn trend never really sticks for long, every project that has been created out to be strong in their own genetic. Will soon perish and becomes another new strain within 5 - 6 years. Mother nature in the end, just wouldn't let it happen...

 

[MN_Rebel]

In the dog world of breeding, you would be exactly correct. I have bred dogs for a few years according to standing with AKC and UKC. But since fish in a whole have so much in them, you will never get one that look exactly alike. Maybe similar, but not nearly the same. According to my studies of fish genetics along with the Department of Fish and Game in California. Fish genetic tends to be weaker, and only stable if bred with its own specimen and kind. Once you start crossing and hybridizing, they will throw out all sorts of weird looking mutilated fish. Which is why you see flowerhorn trend never really sticks for long, every project that has been created out to be strong in their own genetic. Will soon perish and becomes another new strain within 5 - 6 years. Mother nature in the end, just wouldn't let it happen...

and in the wild, the hybrids eventually reverts back to the "purebred" after few generations. I know hybrid sunfish with no other sunfish species present in the farm ponds always reverts back to the green sunfish few years later and now you have a messed up pond with puny green sunfish.

 

[BIG_ONE]

and in the wild, the hybrids eventually reverts back to the "purebred" after few generations. I know hybrid sunfish with no other sunfish species present in the farm ponds always reverts back to the green sunfish few years later and now you have a messed up pond with puny green sunfish.

It varies from state to state due to the condition of the water and the climate itself. It plays a major role on how the genetic want to display itself according to fitting within the environment its living in. But in terms of hybrids in general, most wild hybrid usually ends up going into pure specimen again. But then again those pure specimen that has a linage of hybridization within a few generation, are usually weaker than the actual ones that hasn't got any hybridization ever since the specimen itself is stabilize. In this scenario, it tells you that fish in general have the weakest genetic. Unlike dogs where to say if you mix a pit bull terrier with a german shepard, you can breed it back into a pitbull or a german shepard for a few generation without mixing with any other breeds. It still somewhat shows that particular trait of what it was hybrid with a few generations ago, that's how steady dogs or mammals genetics in general. Even today stabilized dog breeds, we can still see bits of pieces of traits where the dog origin parents came from. And it's been a century or over a century...

 

[Bayoucichlid]

Not a flower horn

 

[Chrisplosion]

Not a flower horn

Yes, it is....