Acclimating my new polypterus?
- Thread starter PredatorPiqued
- Start date
No, O2 won't be depleted. Studies have found that even international shipments of fish usually have plenty of oxygen (well above atmospheric levels) upon arrival and recommend changing the air:water ratio in favor of more water.
Opening the bag will therefore decrease oxygen levels and even if it did actually increase oxygen levels that won't increase pH.
Translation: you have no scientific evidence and if you engaged in a scientific debate you'd get rekt.
Advocates of plop or drop make several assumptions, some of which I don't think are justified.
One is that ammonia instantly harms the fish. This is most likely not true as it takes time for ammonia to affect the fish. Ammonia kills by affecting the CNS and it takes time for blood ammonia levels to build up to toxic levels.
The second assumption is that CO2 escapes the moment the bag is opened and pH instantly rises. I can't take credit for this as it was someone on another forum who first questioned this.
I thought I'd have to perform my own experiments to prove this but after a good amount of time searching I found a study that performed an applicable experiment.
Yes, I think this will work.
What are those units on the X axis? Why, it looks like "hours."
So what's your way of acclimation? You seem like you'd rather not take a careful route of drip acclimate and prime. Temp acclimate like I first said seems off the table too? Or did I read you wrong? What's your method? Because I'm sure the op is probably wondering now what's this guy's method? You come on to debunk others methods that work but don't offer another choice?
Translation you like to start problems but offer no solutions.
Oh and btw I didn't say I couldn't bring graphs and papers I just didn't think it was needed but here you go....
I recently received some fish in the mail. The shipper packed them with pure oxygen. His instructions were to float the bag for 20 minutes. Then add 1/2 tank water and float another 20. Then net the fish and release. The fish were looking for food and ate within 15 minutes of being in qt. Just my experience.
I drip acclimate. I don't use Prime for ammonia because it's unproven.
What's the citation for those screenshots?
What specific arguments are you trying to make with them?
All I see is some random person's opinion that pH in the bag will increase rapidly. I don't see where they actually conducted an experiment to determine whether it was actually the case. Not even a reference.
ctsa.org Boyd was cited in that report more then once other were cited too. I just took a snipet of the part we were discussing.
fao.org is more info I haven't posted yet
Thanks for answering the ops original question.
The arguments I'm trying to make is backing up what you questioned me on. I don't like using prime if I don't have too. The lfs I've worked at use it for most, not all fish invert and coral acclimation processes. I don't use it in my tanks if I can help it, because I believe it does exactly what they say it binds ammonia. They say it doesn't effect your biological filtration ability to remove or process the bound ammonia, nitrite. I think it does hinder your bio, no proof though other then anecdotal. They is seachem.
So that "manual" states that respiration uses o2 creates co2 and co2 effects pH in a negative manner. pH has an effect on the toxicity of ammonia, lower pH less toxic. Under normal circumstances airating the shipping water will cause an increase in pH by driving co2 from it. Ammonia is still there ammonia at higher ph is damaging possibly deadly. That's my point.
Now if the animal was shipped and it was a short trip/time not too big an issue. Ops animal maybe 5 days or more more then enough time to cause sufficient co2 and ammonia build up especially if in standard plastic bags. Either with or without pure o2. Hopefully breather bags or o2 but either way. My replys to this thread were answers to his exact questions until you confronted me about one of the methods that many employ not just two places I've worked and or shopped for years, look it up many places do it. Seachem actually sent reps out to do demos at lfs across the nation. I understand that was twofold 1 to get word out on ways to increase survivability and second to promote their product. (Order is probably needing to be reversed).
I would like a citation on how prime is unproven in binding ammonia. Pretty sure it's been proven multiple times.
I don't believe every marketing claim Seachem makes. Some are very sketchy and casts doubt on others. The only Prime marketing claim that is confirmed is that it neutralizes chlorine/chloramine.
I plan on testing every Prime marketing claim. I'd say it's a coin toss whether it detoxifies ammonia and 0% that it detoxifies nitrite/nitrate.
I've already tested some claims and Prime failed big time. Seachem will not be happy when those results are published.
The ability of clinoptilotite (zeolite) to bind ammonia is scientifically proven so why would I use Prime which only has marketing and anecdotal claims?
Plop or drop assumes CO2 diffuses out of water and pH increases rapidly. This appears to be a faulty assumption. One that is repeated over and over on the Internet.
It wouldn't be the first time, and like I said I don't believe all their claims either.
I would like to see tests on the co2/pH results. Until then I'll go with the "assumption" and play it safe. Anything I've ordered hasn't been more then a day from point a to point b so it's kind of a moot point on my part. And until my "boss" tells me different I'll do as they tell me and that's use prime on their premises. He is interested in my idea of prime hindering the biological processes.
