yeah, this thread needs to be closed now, i think i have been educated. people who keep those fish species just dont have the moral fortitude to accknowledge what they are doing is wrong, its the "i want it, so im gonna get it" mentality, with no regard for the actual feeling of the fish,. thats bassically it i think, they know there wrong, but have so little ethics that it just gets pushed to the back of their minds, its cool, so, whatever, and i dont know what that one guy was talking about, all my tanks have appropriate fish in them, and i have a 240 coming up, so no one can dare tell me i dont have appropriate tanks. so, i guess my view of people is rather unchanged from this thread, still think 99% of the world needs to be culled, so yeah, close the thread, it has ended