Ammonia - Not enough Filtration

[jjohnwm]

Like you, i've had lots of success cycling new tanks with mature media from an existing set up, and on the odd occasion, due to my impatience and adding fish too quickly, there's been the odd time where my parameters went haywire.

I realise now that by using the word "myth" has made me look like i'm not a believer in this method at all, far from it.

But I do stand by my statement about there being too many variables involved for it to be considered 100% trustworthy. Especially for people who are pretty new to the hobby. An element of expertise is needed to understand what's going on.

Agree completely; I don't suggest that it...or, for that matter, anything...is foolproof. I am living proof of the notion that nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool! It's just another tool to use, and is more or less useful based upon the skill of the user...just like any other tool.

 

[RD.]

Agree with jjohnwm , I have lost count how many new set ups that I have instantly cycled using established media. The trick is not going beyond the limitations of the quantity of bio-media that is added. But that is where as esoxlucius stated, experience/expertise comes into play.

I have also learned another trick over the years when ones water is treated with chloramine - by performing large frequent water changes, you can actually build up the NH3 free ammonia spikes (safely converted with Prime/Safe or similar) which in turn increases the bio colony in your media. It's a slick way of tricking the bacteria into multiplying dramatically, in advance of setting up a new tank.

 

[RD.]

I could probably hold the water in bins for 24 hours prior, it would be cold, then pump it in...

FYI - Holding chloramine treated water in bins for 24 hrs will be no different than adding it directly from your tap. Chloramine does not simply "gas off" like aged chlorine treated tap water.

 

[jjohnwm]

...The trick is not going beyond the limitations of the quantity of bio-media that is added...

^ Bumper sticker material!

The rest of your post reminds me how lucky I am to be on a well.

 

[deeda]

dr exum test your tap water for ammonia and post the results. Be sure to thoroughly rinse out the test tube and cap multiple times to be sure there is no residue. Many members recommend using DI water for this purpose to be sure there are no contaminants left in the test tube.

While you are at it, why not test for nitrite and nitrate at the same time?

 

[twentyleagues]

So do you guys really think it's not cycled? It's been 6 months. If its not cycled something else is going on. It's not week 1 or 2 it's been 6 months. Everyone is treating this issue like it's a newb with a brand new couple week old tank. Does no one read all the thread or posts it's only 6 pages guys not 600. I have run into this before and it was a tank where prime was being used. I stopped them using prime and put some bacteria in and week later everything was good. Prime has it uses for sure, but at the same time I've seen issues too. My bottled bacteria choice when no good bacteria covered media is available is mb7. Why? Because I tried it and it worked.

TBH I think it's the test or the tester. Sorry no offense meant. Sometimes I get wacky test results too that's why I get a second opinion from my lfs.

 

[jjohnwm]

An inaccurate test seems like a likely explanation on the odd occasion. But is the original poster actually doing every test wrong to get these results? That seems unlikely; a proper test is not difficult or complicated, it's just a bit tedious to get perfect cleanliness and perfect agitation of the test. If I get a test reading that seems puzzling, I just do it again myself taking extra care and it always turns out that the first one was a case of operator error.

So, is the tank cycled and the tests wrong? Or is the tank not cycled...and if not, why not? How can it not be? Is there some glaring piece of info that is not presented here?

 

[RD.]

Everyone is treating this issue like it's a newb with a brand new couple week old tank. Does no one read all the thread or posts it's only 6 pages guys not 600.

I have read the entire thread (2 pages for me lol), and can still not make heads nor tails of what the OP is doing. Might I remind you the OP is not even certain what his tap water is treated with, let alone what the residual is at his tap, so that may in itself be an issue depending on the chlorine/chloramine residual at his taps. So, for me personally, newb status applies. 6 months in or not, very easy to screw things up if you don't understand the science behind some of this. BTW - I have never had an issue with Prime or Safe having a negative affect on a cycle, nor is there any reasonable explanation as to why it would. Ammonia binding products simply convert NH3, free ammonia, to a fish safe form. The ammonia is still available to the bio bacteria. Not sure what happened to you in the past, anymore than what is going on here, but rather certain that it has nothing to do with the OP using Prime, unless he wasn't using enough? Who knows, I hate playing guessing games.

Good luck figuring it out.

 

[Rocksor]

A fast growing 10" red tail catfish that was feed initially 2-3 times a day with of 5 pieces of shrimp for each feeding in a 75 gallon tank. Then you have the really thick substrate (who knows what's in there). OP mentioned ammonia under control when not RTC not fed. So many things happening with this 75g tank, and no real baseline of the tap water or tank prior to problems happening.

I've done a fishless cycle using Prime/Safe (forget which one), 4ppm treated chloramine tap water, and no seeded media. Total ammonia reading was 0.25-0.5ppm. Took about 6 weeks. I've also done the seeded media with fish in cycle, and that took roughly 2 weeks to fully cycle with Prime/Safe, many times over. Never had an cycle crash because of Prime/Safe.

 

[twentyleagues]

I have read the entire thread (2 pages for me lol), and can still not make heads nor tails of what the OP is doing. Might I remind you the OP is not even certain what his tap water is treated with, let alone what the residual is at his tap, so that may in itself be an issue depending on the chlorine/chloramine residual at his taps. So, for me personally, newb status applies. 6 months in or not, very easy to screw things up if you don't understand the science behind some of this. BTW - I have never had an issue with Prime or Safe having a negative affect on a cycle, nor is there any reasonable explanation as to why it would. Ammonia binding products simply convert NH3, free ammonia, to a fish safe form. The ammonia is still available to the bio bacteria. Not sure what happened to you in the past, anymore than what is going on here, but rather certain that it has nothing to do with the OP using Prime, unless he wasn't using enough? Who knows, I hate playing guessing games.

Good luck figuring it out.

We I just figured you would read the whole thread. There are some on here that didn't/don't though. I know I even contacted seachem (really good customer service btw) and did a bunch of testing with them so I know it's not supposed to effect anything and everyone says the same thing. I'm only giving what I saw. And yes no one else sees it ever, everytime I mention it it's the same story.....I'm crazy. It's ok I'm used to it.
I see what you are saying about tests on tap and knowing what's in the tap water and I'm right there with you. We need that info. That's why I asked for it. If its chlorine he can age it and it'll be fine, if chloramine it must be chemically handled.
I don't know what's going on either just seems as if you had any bacteria at all and a fish and the fish survived you would sooner or later acheive a biological filter that would handle it. But I see if you are putting chlorine water in maybe you are killing the bacteria as it's growing.....I don't know. Just seems familiar to my situation personally in a tank I set up. My water had chlorine no chloramine. The other instance was well water with no chlorine or chloramine the lfs just told them to use prime and he purchased it. Both times I stopped prime and tank cycled just fine.