Anaerobic Bacteria

[jaws7777]

I don't want seem like a dummy but let me get this straight.
We are talking about just running water from the tank at a very slow rate though a long coil of tubing?
So the bacteria would just form on the inside of the tube?

No im pretty sure theres media involved...in the pvc tower like pot scrubbirs or what ever. So the long length of air line tubing and low flow in theory help de oxygenate the water making it suitable for the anaerobic bb to colonize on the media. Thats why the initial build i copied had the 9ft tower and why i ran mine in a series (to save room)

Yesterday I began a longterm test on the denitrator, dosing carbon (vodka), and nitrate as necessary. I plan to let nitrate fall to ~20 ppm and then add enough nitrate over 24 hours to maintain 20 ppm. If I add fish to the test tank nitrification should be encouraged in the 4 deoxygenating towers. A separate filter with established media would also be added to the tank. When nitrate stabalizes at 20 ppm the flowrate will be increased from 1 gpH in order to see how fast it can operate.

Nitrate = 80 ppm
Added 1 ml vodka and 2 ml bacteria supplement
An airpump/airstone is in the main tank with a circulation pump to make sure the water is re-oxygenated.
Heat is set to 82º

Question mike would the concentration of nitrate and effectiveness of the filter (mainly gph) be relative to the tank/system size ?
80ppm in say a 20 gal would cycle thrpugh the filter much faster than 80ppm in say a 180 or larger. Effectively or possibly matching nitrate creep ?

 

[tarheel96]

Right. There's 9 times more nitrate in a 180 gallon with 80 ppm than in the 20 gallon with 80 ppm. So where a denitrator would handle the nitrate load of a 20 gallon it may not with a larger tank.

 

[jaws7777]

Anyone have the same problem like me. I have 3 eartheaters. 1 Daemon and 2 jurupari about 7". They are kept in a 135gallon with tons of dithers. 20 giant danios and 43 tiger barbs plus 10 different loaches. You would think that with all these dithers they wouldn't be so damn skittish!! I'm at the point where I'm gonna sell or trade them in cause I can't even enjoy the tank without them darting around. I actually enjoy my son"s guppy tank more now. I need a new show piece that won't hide 24/7! Help

Right. There's 9 times more nitrate in a 180 gallon with 80 ppm than in the 20 gallon with 80 ppm. So where a denitrator would handle the nitrate load of a 20 gallon it may not with a larger tank.

Makes sense thsts wbat i though. Most of the stuff we're reading or seeing on the net i assume dont take this into account.
Sheesh tbh im skeptical on about all of these methods...even if mine is infact working but like the original build the media clogs up in say 6 months and needs to be replaced, and say new media takes 3 to 4 months to colonize im not sure i would even call it a success.

What would be the simplest form of dosing in your opinion ? Is there a way to calculate how mjch and how often or would it be easier to apply what BIG-G stated start off at 1 ml and go from there ?

BIG-G would the 1ml be daily ?

 

[jaws7777]

Ok so i fed late last night. Nitrates definitly went up. Which should be normal.


Id say its more than 20ppm but under 30ish.

I would think that at 29gph the system wpuld cycle in anout 14 hrs but considering bypass lets give it 24hrs. Hopefully nitrates will decrease to some degree.

Im still pretty amazed that they arent 80ppm by now. Though im still skeptical and looking for holes in this filteration method

 

[BIG-G]

Yes but it's .1 per 25 gallons some instructions say .2 per 25 to start it just depends on what source your reading from.
That's daily for 3 days then add .1 ml per 25 gallons for 3 days to your starting dose and you keep increasing by .1ml per 25 gallons until you see a reduction in Po4 and NO 3. Then hold this dose for 3 day if Po4 and NO3 increase you increase the dose by .1ml per 25 , but if they decrease you decrease by .1 ml per 25 until the system is stable. The theory is that if bioload meaning fish populations and food introductions every thing is kept stable then you should be able to zero in on a specific dose for your system. At that point it's just maintenance and periodic checks to make sure everything is stabilized.

 

[tarheel96]

Was this is a reef tank BIG-G ?

 

[BIG-G]

Was this is a reef tank BIG-G ?

Yes this is the vodka dosing method for saltwater.
Now how this will translate to fresh I don't know. With saltwater the removal of the organics is through the use of a protein skimmer.
So for the freshwater this has to be applied to a denitrifying tower for this to work.
Unless your using a freshwater skimmer of some design and as far as I know some have used skimming on freshwater but not in junction with vodka dosing.
So we all may be breaking new ground here I'm not sure.

 

[jaws7777]

Yes but it's .1 per 25 gallons some instructions say .2 per 25 to start it just depends on what source your reading from.
That's daily for 3 days then add .1 ml per 25 gallons for 3 days to your starting dose and you keep increasing by .1ml per 25 gallons until you see a reduction in Po4 and NO 3. Then hold this dose for 3 day if Po4 and NO3 increase you increase the dose by .1ml per 25 , but if they decrease you decrease by .1 ml per 25 until the system is stable. The theory is that if bioload meaning fish populations and food introductions every thing is kept stable then you should be able to zero in on a specific dose for your system. At that point it's just maintenance and periodic checks to make sure everything is stabilized.

Vodka ?
Edit sorry we must have replied at the same time

 

[BIG-G]

but if they decrease you decrease by .1 ml per 25 until the system is stable.

This may not be accurate, if you see a decrease you should hold your dose there.
I couldn't edit this.

 

[Hendre]

Thicker or larger diameter ? Thicker would make matters worse.

You have to consider the nitrate creep and bioload also how would 02 levels drop if your running it at full flow ?

Ive been dosing probiotics for a couple of yrs now and yes it does reduce waste but not to the extent your thinking. I still have to swap socks and squeeze out foam pads. It woukd probably extend the time the airline tubing gets clogged.

Where did you read probiotics reduce 02 ?

You know you have to build a coil denitrator now right ? Lol

Diameter. I'd use an intake prefilter of sorts.

Probiotics are aerobic so use oxygen when they complete their activities.

I plan on doing a coil at some point lol. Will see how it works

Seems there are 2 distinct directions on this thread:
1- The carbon dosing guys
2- Me trying to figure out the coils lol