are these good quality fh fries ???

[DDK]

So your understanding about gene is that it starts and stops at the parents only!!.... Very limited knowledge that is!

Do you understand what genes do? If you did I really dont think you would have said that it stops and starts with the parents. I'll quickly explain what genes are and what they do.

Genes are basically instructions inherited from the parents. Half the fathers and half the mothers, if a fh's parents dont have koks their off springs wont have koks. Simple as that, your brown and your parents are brown for an example. You dont see purple kids running down the street do you? Back on track, anything that is multicelluar is predestined to be what it is from the parents genes. Sure there could be a differ combination that lead to different looking offspring but its all within a scope local to its own possibilities.

Genes are a combination of instructions so you saying "your understanding of gene is that it starts and stops at the parent only" is true. Your knowledge seems very very limited. In college I took a couple genetics classes and have a very good understanding of genetics..

Correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying after the fh receives its genes from its mother and father it some how alters them within its own body and becomes something it wasnt predestined to be? If so that's a huge load of bull. First thing I was told in my very first genetics lecture is that all muticelluar creatures have been given a blueprint which are the genes that decides length, color, regulatory functions, and the final disposition. I have a hint that you dont really understand what you're talking about..

 

[onefowl1]

What are you exactly trying to say? I don't think you have any understanding of what were talking about. Are you saying that fish is a stunner of two genetically underlined parents? Posting a picture and saying "so this is low grade?!" has no relevance what so ever. Post pics of the parents if that's what you implying? Its like your going to court and you have no argument but only the wanted outcome. Please read, makes all our lives a bit easier.

I think what they are trying to say is not everyone is into fh with large water kok and some are into faded fh ect...In other words ones mans ideals is another mans trash. So i think the response was to the comment on little kok washed out colors and such not to the parents used to make them part of your post. Even though the parents of the OP fish are not faded with the parrot blood showing and the color of some of the fry it is possible some of them might fade. Some of them do show strong pearling as well. There are many that would find a nicely pearled faded flowerhorn with a smaller hard kok more desirable than one with a large water kok. It comes down to personal taste and saying one is a lower grade than the other is comparing apples to oranges. Now with that being said I think there is definitely a wide range of scale of quality in this batch of fry when comparing these traits along with body and fins as well so if these are the type of fh the op likes they need to be picky which ones they get.

 

[kookiejar2]

Do you understand what genes do? If you did I really dont think you would have said that it stops and starts with the parents. I'll quickly explain what genes are and what they do.

Genes are basically instructions inherited from the parents. Half the fathers and half the mothers, if a fh's parents dont have koks their off springs wont have koks. Simple as that, your brown and your parents are brown for an example. You dont see purple kids running down the street do you? Back on track, anything that is multicelluar is predestined to be what it is from the parents genes. Sure there could be a differ combination that lead to different looking offspring but its all within a scope local to its own possibilities.

Genes are a combination of instructions so you saying "your understanding of gene is that it starts and stops at the parent only" is true. Your knowledge seems very very limited. In college I took a couple genetics classes and have a very good understanding of genetics..

Correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying after the fh receives its genes from its mother and father it some how alters them within its own body and becomes something it wasnt predestined to be? If so that's a huge load of bull. First thing I was told in my very first genetics lecture is that all muticelluar creatures have been given a blueprint which are the genes that decides length, color, regulatory functions, and the final disposition. I have a hint that you dont really understand what you're talking about..

You REALLY need to go back to college!

Does grandparents' gene.... Great grandparents' gene ring anything to you?!!! Or you just want to talk big about your genetics class in college.
I know what I said, and a few guys with an actual knowledge about FH breeding would know that fine! NOT you unfortunately..... So good luck with your genetics education that says gene is only passed through the father and mother....

 

[kookiejar2]

Oh... BTW, I have bred generations of FH to understand firsthand a bit MORE than your college gene class!

 

[onefowl1]

Do you understand what genes do? If you did I really dont think you would have said that it stops and starts with the parents. I'll quickly explain what genes are and what they do.

Genes are basically instructions inherited from the parents. Half the fathers and half the mothers, if a fh's parents dont have koks their off springs wont have koks. Simple as that, your brown and your parents are brown for an example. You dont see purple kids running down the street do you? Back on track, anything that is multicelluar is predestined to be what it is from the parents genes. Sure there could be a differ combination that lead to different looking offspring but its all within a scope local to its own possibilities.

Genes are a combination of instructions so you saying "your understanding of gene is that it starts and stops at the parent only" is true. Your knowledge seems very very limited. In college I took a couple genetics classes and have a very good understanding of genetics..

Correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying after the fh receives its genes from its mother and father it some how alters them within its own body and becomes something it wasnt predestined to be? If so that's a huge load of bull. First thing I was told in my very first genetics lecture is that all muticelluar creatures have been given a blueprint which are the genes that decides length, color, regulatory functions, and the final disposition. I have a hint that you dont really understand what you're talking about..

I do have a very strong background into genetics and you are right partly not wholly in this. To put it simply as you said half the genes from each parent into each fry which is right but someone who truly understands genetics knows it is not always the half we see of each parent. While it is easier to use parents showing the traits we desire for our future prodigy or desired end in this case FH's they can also be gained from fish having them genetically just not physically or visually expressed. SO saying if both fh parents don't have koks their offspring will not have them simple as that is wrong. What is right is if they do not express it then their is a greater chance many of their offspring may not. With each gene or trait we strive for it will come down to its order of dominance or if it needs one or more sets in order to express itself. Also with kok itself water quality, diet and size of tank have just as much to do with it as genetics. Many have gotten fh with large kok's on them and have the fish lose them over a short period after because of housing and diet changes with the fish (fish came from large ponds used by commercial fish farms and went to a smaller indoor fish tank) and in some cases because the fish were dosed with hormones.

 

[kookiejar2]

I do have a very strong background into genetics and you are right partly not wholly in this. To put it simply as you said half the genes from each parent into each fry which is right but someone who truly understands genetics knows it is not always the half we see of each parent. While it is easier to use parents showing the traits we desire for our future prodigy or desired end in this case FH's they can also be gained from fish having them genetically just not physically or visually expressed. SO saying if both fh parents don't have koks their offspring will not have them simple as that is wrong. What is right is if they do not express it then their is a greater chance many of their offspring may not. With each gene or trait we strive for it will come down to its order of dominance or if it needs one or more sets in order to express itself. Also with kok itself water quality, diet and size of tank have just as much to do with it as genetics. Many have gotten fh with large kok's on them and have the fish lose them over a short period after because of housing and diet changes with the fish (fish came from large ponds used by commercial fish farms and went to a smaller indoor fish tank) and in some cases because the fish were dosed with hormones.

A much more knowledgeable explanation..... Hope instead of telling me to read his half baked comments, he should read this!

 

[onefowl1]

A much more knowledgeable explanation..... Hope instead of telling me to read his half baked comments, he should read this!

Thank you. We would not have the variety of fish we have today if one or both parents had to visually express a gene or trait in order to produce offspring with it. lol...As a self titled project breeder in many forms of life from plants to birds, animals and fish i love the challenge of starting with unfinished stock and combining them over several generations to produce my end goal. Just something more gratifying and satisfying about doing it myself instead of just buying/getting it already done. I remember as a youth competing with pigeons and chickens against other kids that had parents just go out and spend big cash buying them show stock to compete with. They had little or no knowledge of how the birds were made or to keep them in the condition they were gotten in for competing. Many do not realize for example because of a poor breed standard in many of the chicken breeds that one needs both a hen line and a cock line to produce birds at the set weights/size of each sex for showing and winning.

 

[DDK]

You REALLY need to go back to college!

Does grandparents' gene.... Great grandparents' gene ring anything to you?!!! Or you just want to talk big about your genetics class in college.
I know what I said, and a few guys with an actual knowledge about FH breeding would know that fine! NOT you unfortunately..... So good luck with your genetics education that says gene is only passed through the father and mother....

Are you really that incompetent...?

What did I say here?

First thing I was told in my very first genetics lecture is that all muticelluar creatures have been given a blueprint which are the genes that decides length, color, regulatory functions, and the final disposition.

This "blue print" is a understanding of all genes put together through out generation of generation. If you really cant see that grandparents or past generations are implied there I honestly have no words for you. That really just made me laugh and feel a bit sorry...

Do you really think its plausible to see the grand parents of the fh? No I'm sure you can even understand that looking at the parents is the only viable way to determine the children's quality.

You say you know people who breed flowerhorns and I call bull @#$!. Ask any breeder the one way to get quality fry and they will tell you start with two quality fh's. Not shooting in the dark hoping the grandparents traits recessive traits will pass through resulting in a very minimal chance of any quality fh's which yield's no profit.

 

[DDK]

I do have a very strong background into genetics and you are right partly not wholly in this. To put it simply as you said half the genes from each parent into each fry which is right but someone who truly understands genetics knows it is not always the half we see of each parent. While it is easier to use parents showing the traits we desire for our future prodigy or desired end in this case FH's they can also be gained from fish having them genetically just not physically or visually expressed. SO saying if both fh parents don't have koks their offspring will not have them simple as that is wrong. What is right is if they do not express it then their is a greater chance many of their offspring may not. With each gene or trait we strive for it will come down to its order of dominance or if it needs one or more sets in order to express itself. Also with kok itself water quality, diet and size of tank have just as much to do with it as genetics. Many have gotten fh with large kok's on them and have the fish lose them over a short period after because of housing and diet changes with the fish (fish came from large ponds used by commercial fish farms and went to a smaller indoor fish tank) and in some cases because the fish were dosed with hormones.

I do agree but I would like to state that when I mentioned the blue print I was also including the past generations, I really dont understand why this was missed but this was implied. Saying that most of your post is just reference to that but having two low quality fh's will result in two lower quality fh's unless the eariler generations were a high quality then mixed with a lower quality and so on and so on.

But for a example lets say a vivid color gene, if the grand parents carried the gene and then the father or mother was the carrier, being ressesive of course as the mother nor father shows it, it only has 25% chance of coming out if the mother and father both have it. Its really nearly impossible to state that two lower quality fh's as in washed out colors, no kok what so ever, and bad body shape will receive the 25% chance of the trait that will be 1 out of 4. Pairing with a random female with these traits is just plain outrageous.

Having recessive red hair is a 25% chance gene, the child will NOT have red hair unless the other partner is carrying the recessive gene. Same concept yet with fh's as they were bred so much within their own family and also others outside the family starting with two lower quality fh's will almost positively yield low quality fry with the exception to a very minimal degree.

 

[DDK]

A much more knowledgeable explanation..... Hope instead of telling me to read his half baked comments, he should read this!

Really? Because I don't even know what your argument is. I highly doubt that anyone does as all you posted was a picture saying "So this is low quality at 6 inches?". Please clearly tell me your argument and then we can future discuss this because I really have no clue what point you are trying to get across.