Are we cruel!
- Thread starter hamster
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In my thoughts.. i would say the only time it is cruel is if the conditions we keep them in are not satisfactory... if you keep the water pristene.. and give quality food.. quality room..quality tank mates.. keep them from stressful situations as much as possible.. they probably will live a longer better life then in the wild... there are certain fish species that should be studied further as aquarium kept pets.. one that comes to mind is the columbian cat fish.. in the wild they leave fresh water and go into full salt.. then come back and breed and have their young in fresh water.. i found this to be kind of cruel to my columbian because they wanted to make the trip .. but of course they were restricted.. i am sure it was the demise of the male.. he carried the eggs in his mouth and would not eat ... He did live until 10 years old though probably much longer then he would if he were in the wild.. and the female is doing great now without the relentless attempts to breed.........and this is the most important thing we can do..what we are doing now.. disscuss and learn and contribute to the highest degree of fishkeeping skills.. that is what this forum is all about.......educate
Hello; A few counterpoints.
My guess is that most home fish keeper tanks are not the last repository of species that would otherwise be endangered in the wild in their natural habitat, at least for now.
There are numerious posts describing severly overstocked tanks. Many have stocking so dense that a few hours without electrical power has been reported to result in loss of fish.
Perhaps this is not generally true, but the large majority of active fish tanks I have personally seen over the last five decades have been very poorly kept. It would be hard to say for sure, but my feeling that the some of the worst have been in fish shops. I have seen many home tanks in horrible condition. I no longer try to encourage folks to take up the hobby as far too often hey have wound up with very bad results.
I have read of collection methods that are very destructive. The most recent that I recall reading about involved the collection of ottocinclius. If you want to buy a leopard skin coat then some agent will act on your desire and go out and convince a leopard to donate it's skin. We spend money on fish and our paid agents collect the various fish. My best guess is that there are a very large percentage of losses by the time the fish get to a local fish shop.
For the few fish keepers, I know of, that do a good job with their tanks the fish spend their lives in the tanks. There are laws that stop tank fish from being placed back into the wild. All of the fish that I have kept over the years, with the exception of the ones that I have now, have died. They existed for my pleasure.
Those in my tanks now are very lightly stocked and likely have very decent living conditions. I would very much like to but I am not able to discount all the fish that passed away during the several decades it took me to learn how to keep fish properly and in very low stocking densities. I did not have the internet for most of my fishkeeping time and perhaps could have learned much more quickly had such information been available. I would had to fight the tendency to want to fill up a tank with fish for a long time.
So, as much as I like keeping fish I have to concede that there is a level of what could be called "cruelty" involved. I like to think that most of the problems for fish end when I get them home, but I realise that the fish trade exists in some part because I am willing to spend the money that I do.
My guess is that most home fish keeper tanks are not the last repository of species that would otherwise be endangered in the wild in their natural habitat, at least for now.
There are numerious posts describing severly overstocked tanks. Many have stocking so dense that a few hours without electrical power has been reported to result in loss of fish.
Perhaps this is not generally true, but the large majority of active fish tanks I have personally seen over the last five decades have been very poorly kept. It would be hard to say for sure, but my feeling that the some of the worst have been in fish shops. I have seen many home tanks in horrible condition. I no longer try to encourage folks to take up the hobby as far too often hey have wound up with very bad results.
I have read of collection methods that are very destructive. The most recent that I recall reading about involved the collection of ottocinclius. If you want to buy a leopard skin coat then some agent will act on your desire and go out and convince a leopard to donate it's skin. We spend money on fish and our paid agents collect the various fish. My best guess is that there are a very large percentage of losses by the time the fish get to a local fish shop.
For the few fish keepers, I know of, that do a good job with their tanks the fish spend their lives in the tanks. There are laws that stop tank fish from being placed back into the wild. All of the fish that I have kept over the years, with the exception of the ones that I have now, have died. They existed for my pleasure.
Those in my tanks now are very lightly stocked and likely have very decent living conditions. I would very much like to but I am not able to discount all the fish that passed away during the several decades it took me to learn how to keep fish properly and in very low stocking densities. I did not have the internet for most of my fishkeeping time and perhaps could have learned much more quickly had such information been available. I would had to fight the tendency to want to fill up a tank with fish for a long time.
So, as much as I like keeping fish I have to concede that there is a level of what could be called "cruelty" involved. I like to think that most of the problems for fish end when I get them home, but I realise that the fish trade exists in some part because I am willing to spend the money that I do.
The op didnt specify just home fish keepers. Yea there are some very bad keepers out there. I look at it like this do we say keeping a dog or cat as a pet is cruel because there are more of them mistreated in the hands of humans than fish. Keeping any animal in captivity is cruel to some people but I have always felt if you do everything responsibly and give them the care the diserve then there is no way to call that cruel. Everything kept in captivity would have more room in the wild but take african cichlids for example they if cared for properly in the aquarium they grow larger most of the time than they do in the wild. There will always be cruelty all we can do is make sure we do not contribute to it. I look at my fish as members of my family. Ive lost fish over the years with proper care and all, but do you think about the amount of the same fish that died in the wild. To sum it up I dont think you can say that keeping fish is cruel as a whole just because there are poorly kept fish out there.
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of course it is cruel. They'd rather be free.. Just like yourself.. Wanna be in jail everyday with other inmates?
Id end up posting a novel but thank goodness skj47 already did for me.
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Most FW fish are captive bred and sold at stores, I feel that when I get a fish I am a better owner than 99% of other people who would get that fish.
I feel a little different for SW, 92% of SW fish are actually caught from the ocean!!! But when I have my 75 gallon finally set up I will "adopt" a lionfish. I feel better getting that rather than a fish that is helping out in the reef that it was taken from. Lionfish are terrorizing reefs, that isn't the reason why I'm getting one but I feel better getting one because of that.
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I feel a little different for SW, 92% of SW fish are actually caught from the ocean!!! But when I have my 75 gallon finally set up I will "adopt" a lionfish. I feel better getting that rather than a fish that is helping out in the reef that it was taken from. Lionfish are terrorizing reefs, that isn't the reason why I'm getting one but I feel better getting one because of that.
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I dont see it as cruel as long as the fish is getting the right care. I personally don't feel like i could every give my fish the space they would get in the wild but im giving them more then what the need to thrive in a tank. My fish seem very happy and i feel given that given chance to go to the wild they would stay with me as they are safe, well fed, and seem to like me 
i have thought about this from time to time and I do my best to take care of my fish. i try not to overcrowd my tanks, in my 240 i only have 6 fish all around 12" give or take. For the most part I think my fish have enough space to swim freely around. A recent experience has changed my mind on "enough space to swim freely" I spent 10 weeks working right on the colorado river and for a 2 week span I went down to the water every morning. What i saw was 3 small mouth bass guarding ther territory as most of us know thats what some fish do. Each fish guarded about a 30 foot stretch of the river right in front of the dock i was on. They would chase each other and any other fish out of their space. I really made me think about how much space our fish have to swim about and after my experience I think we dont give them enough space, but we do the best we can. Being away from home caused my to miss my fish so one day I decided to see if I could feed them night crawlers, they were a little hesitant at first but within a minute they were eating the worms. Every day after that when I walked down the dock the fish would swim up close and wait to be fed, sound familiar? I fed these fish for about a week strait and one day they were gone, never to be seen again. This was a very cool experience for me to observe the fish in there natural habitat behave just like the fish in my tank but the flip side is I now feel sorry for the fish we keep, but not sorry enough to not keep them any more. I don't think its cruel to keep them after all they are fed daily and most of the time don't need to worry about being eaten but they do need more space. So do the best you can and try not to overcrowd. Just my opinion
