Lmao
Sometimes the obvious is just....well....obvious.....
BTW mt dew flavored vodka is where its at!
Go S. Vettel #1 rb8
Are we cruel!
- Thread starter hamster
- Start date
Lmao
Sometimes the obvious is just....well....obvious.....
BTW mt dew flavored vodka is where its at!
Go S. Vettel #1 rb8
Alright, so everyone here thinks they give great care to thier fish.....now let's count all the people giving bad care. I bet they outnumber us 20 to 1. Go read the threads on here if you don't believe me
Never heard of mt dew vodka
Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
Never heard of mt dew vodka
Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
This is always going to vary based on the person you ask just like its going to vary upon what size tank is acceptable. To be honest, many people are couch potatoes and love sitting on their computers or watching tv. For other people, being indoors all day would be cruel and they love going outside and doing physical work. Depends on personality
Hello; There appears to be a division into at least two categories. One is how the fish fair while in the care of the home fishkeeper and the other what happens to the fish prior to being taken home.
For your consideration allow me to delve into an area that I do not think has been mentioned so far. That being a practice of the selective breeding process. A practice of the culling (killing of undesireable) offspring along the way to develope the new varities that show up from time to time in the fish shops. Angle fish and bettas come to mind right away. I suppose to this category can be added the home hobbiest that raises a species of fish and winds up without a suitable way to keep the offspring.
One example. I use to set up breeding tanks in my biology classes. Usually with zebra danioes. The students could study the eggs and fry as they developed. We collected the eggs and small fry day by day and observed them under microscopes and viewers. the eggs and fry were placed back into the tank and most lived. I would then offer some fry to interested students to take home months later after they matured enough to be placed in a community tank. The rest were taken home for myself. For a time I though this eas a good practice. It was at least educational.
The problem hit home to me after I had expanded to a setup to spawn albino kerbinses one year. We could not view the eggs and fry under scopes but the students were able to observe the mating dances and the nesting behavior over time. I still have some video of this. Near the end of the term I offered fry to interested students. When leaving the building one afternoon I found several dead fry in the water fountain near my classroom.
One other aspect of this selective breeding in the hobby in addition to the culling is the deformed varities that are viable and are kept in home aquaria. Some of the gold fish varities come to mind. The ones with the bulging eyes and deformed bodies come to mind. I do not know that they actually suffer while they live but have often wondered about it.
I thought to highlite the important parts this time. I forgot before.
For your consideration allow me to delve into an area that I do not think has been mentioned so far. That being a practice of the selective breeding process. A practice of the culling (killing of undesireable) offspring along the way to develope the new varities that show up from time to time in the fish shops. Angle fish and bettas come to mind right away. I suppose to this category can be added the home hobbiest that raises a species of fish and winds up without a suitable way to keep the offspring.
One example. I use to set up breeding tanks in my biology classes. Usually with zebra danioes. The students could study the eggs and fry as they developed. We collected the eggs and small fry day by day and observed them under microscopes and viewers. the eggs and fry were placed back into the tank and most lived. I would then offer some fry to interested students to take home months later after they matured enough to be placed in a community tank. The rest were taken home for myself. For a time I though this eas a good practice. It was at least educational.
The problem hit home to me after I had expanded to a setup to spawn albino kerbinses one year. We could not view the eggs and fry under scopes but the students were able to observe the mating dances and the nesting behavior over time. I still have some video of this. Near the end of the term I offered fry to interested students. When leaving the building one afternoon I found several dead fry in the water fountain near my classroom.
One other aspect of this selective breeding in the hobby in addition to the culling is the deformed varities that are viable and are kept in home aquaria. Some of the gold fish varities come to mind. The ones with the bulging eyes and deformed bodies come to mind. I do not know that they actually suffer while they live but have often wondered about it.
I thought to highlite the important parts this time. I forgot before.
And the majority end up dying because people don't understand how salt water tanks work. I'm alright with fresh but salt is different, you need to know what your doing otherwise you've just wasted a lot of money & killed a lot of beautiful fish..
@skj: I agree. Breeding fish that have trouble moving around, seeing, basically living, like some types of Goldfish, now that's cruel. Telescopes, moors, wen type breeds come to mind.
I don't encourage people to join but do educate them about it. Its a fun hobby but in order for your fish to thrive & be happy you need to know what your doing, so I try to stay as educated as possible.
Also agree with you Red Devil!
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I try to spark peoples' enthusiasm about trying the hobby, but emphasize the rewards of keeping hardy fish which aren't real big, & lightly stocked tanks.
As to endangered species, while it's true that hobbiests will never actually return any to habitats on our own, there are benefits to maintaining genetic pools across a wider range of potential sources. Assuming that breeding includes the preservation of inherent reproduction instincts [survive mating, & parent fry themselves] as well as overall health/vigor. as opposed to prioritizing appearance above survivability.
As to endangered species, while it's true that hobbiests will never actually return any to habitats on our own, there are benefits to maintaining genetic pools across a wider range of potential sources. Assuming that breeding includes the preservation of inherent reproduction instincts [survive mating, & parent fry themselves] as well as overall health/vigor. as opposed to prioritizing appearance above survivability.
I think it's a great question.
A lot of what I see on this site isn't Monster Fish Keeping....it's Monster Fish Cruelty. Keeping ultra aggressive species in such heavily stocked tanks that the fishes nature is somehow changed, keeping fish so large that they can't comfortably turn around in their tank, exposing them to poor quality water because of the constant battle to keep nitrates down in tanks with such a heavy bio-load...I think that is cruelty.
On the flip side, recreating their natural habitat as best as possible, giving them plenty of room to swim, clean water to live in, a healthy diet, as opposed to the brutal realities of nature (competition for food and the constant threat of becoming prey)...well, I think my fish have it pretty good.
A lot of the guys guilty of poor husbandry on this site (I can name names, but I won't) use the argument that keeping them in a "glass box" is selfish in and of itself so anyone arguing that a fish needs more room is a hypocrite. So by this argument, we are all guilty and it's only a question of how relatively guilty we are. It's interesting that the guys that use this "an aquairum is unnatural to begin with" argument to rationalize their decision to buy enormous growing fish without the resources to care for them are the ones that typically have entire threads dedicated to fish they have killed. Some of these true montsters live for many decades, and these guys think they are cool because they were able to keep them alive for a year or two before they croak? To me, that's not a success.
Let's play a game where we change the creature to something people care for, say dogs. What if someone had a thread with pictures of 15 dead Golden Retrievers because of the owners failure to properly care for the dogs...would we still shrug it off and think no big deal?
What if we posted pictures of a pit bull with it's head ripped off by another pit bull? Would we think that was cool, or acceptable?
Yet when these guys do it with their fish, some of us offer our condolences to the OWNERS of these poor fish? Are you kidding me? They killed these fish and we feel bad for the moronic owners? That's just plain stupid.
Rant over.
A lot of what I see on this site isn't Monster Fish Keeping....it's Monster Fish Cruelty. Keeping ultra aggressive species in such heavily stocked tanks that the fishes nature is somehow changed, keeping fish so large that they can't comfortably turn around in their tank, exposing them to poor quality water because of the constant battle to keep nitrates down in tanks with such a heavy bio-load...I think that is cruelty.
On the flip side, recreating their natural habitat as best as possible, giving them plenty of room to swim, clean water to live in, a healthy diet, as opposed to the brutal realities of nature (competition for food and the constant threat of becoming prey)...well, I think my fish have it pretty good.
A lot of the guys guilty of poor husbandry on this site (I can name names, but I won't) use the argument that keeping them in a "glass box" is selfish in and of itself so anyone arguing that a fish needs more room is a hypocrite. So by this argument, we are all guilty and it's only a question of how relatively guilty we are. It's interesting that the guys that use this "an aquairum is unnatural to begin with" argument to rationalize their decision to buy enormous growing fish without the resources to care for them are the ones that typically have entire threads dedicated to fish they have killed. Some of these true montsters live for many decades, and these guys think they are cool because they were able to keep them alive for a year or two before they croak? To me, that's not a success.
Let's play a game where we change the creature to something people care for, say dogs. What if someone had a thread with pictures of 15 dead Golden Retrievers because of the owners failure to properly care for the dogs...would we still shrug it off and think no big deal?
What if we posted pictures of a pit bull with it's head ripped off by another pit bull? Would we think that was cool, or acceptable?
Yet when these guys do it with their fish, some of us offer our condolences to the OWNERS of these poor fish? Are you kidding me? They killed these fish and we feel bad for the moronic owners? That's just plain stupid.
Rant over.
In a nutshell, yes. if keeping pets wasn't cruel, we'de keep eachother and it wouldnt be illegal or frowned upon. i could go on, but to put it bluntly. Life isnt fair, or full of unicorns and rainbows.
