ATF/Dorado/Goonch/Datnoid PICS!!

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Thanks chicx ... theres def some stuff I would have done differently, but hind sight is always 20/20, and the bottom line is it gets the job done so I cant complain ... biggest issue is that black corrugated tubing, it flexes nice, so its better that way, but its much more breakable than the clear tubing most people use, so its dangerous ... the grey corrugated tubing, almost like vacuum hose is much stronger, I used that for the drain tube for the 40 gallon and I like it much better ... another thing i regret is not making the drain holes bigger, which would allow me to use a bigger pump, but I was really scared to start drilling the tank!!! ... def need to look into these moving bed filters and reactors for my next tank though! :D

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Haha, and I love the goonch teeth shots! The big one has always had a little smaller teeth, which is probably a good thing! Lol!

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Yeah fluidized bed is on the agenda for bio filtration on my big tank. I just recently narrowly missed a shot at an 105 gallon hexagon tank. Can you imagine how awesome of a reactor that would have made?
 
Its actually funny you should say that ... I was helping my mom move stuff to her attic and spotted a 60 gallon hex that I remember from when I was a kid .... wouldnt be a bad idea to throw some silicone in and see if I can make It hold water again

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Moving beds are the bomb. Second to none in my opinion. But if you're a set it and forget it kind of guy, they might not work for you, they don't work right out of the box, definitely need to tweek them. The worst part about them is in order to see what's going on in them they need to be clear. BUT most of the glass tanks out there have tempered glass in them, screwing up hopes and dreams of making them into the perfect reactor. I pretty much gave up and just used acrylic fish tanks.

I have no lecture for you Alix...... We ALL start somewhere. Keeping monsters is an evolutionary path that some of us have just traveled further down. IF you wanted some pointers I'd be glad to give some, but I know there's 147 different ways to make things work. I'm no expert when it comes to this stuff, but I do have experience. I take a lot of pride and joy in the filtration I build and find fluid dynamics to be one of the most interesting parts of this hobby..... Maybe that's just cause it reminds me of my old stereo days where you build something and spend the rest of the season perfecting it, watching the numbers climb, or the performance/efficiency going up and up......

I'd only lecture you IF I could come clean your sump, and I found what I would expect to find in a bio ball or pot scrubbie sump...... ;)

My biggest gripe is people overlook mechanical filtration and for some strange reason seem to think they can counter that with ridiculous amounts of bio. I only know cause I spent many years doing exactly that, cause nobody really explained the importance to me in a way I could understand, so I had to experience it myself. Not so much with normal fish, but once you get a few big rays in a not so big tank it becomes painfully obvious that sometimes monster fish need monster filtration systems. The worst part about filtration is conflicting info. Everyone does things differently, and some are so backwards it's just flat out amazing. Do their fish die? Nope, so it must work, but "working" and doing it right, are 2 totally different things in this guys eyes. I'm having to rebuild mine yet again, cause it "works" but it's going to work a lot better after a head full of ideas from Reedmaster....... IF you need a go to guy for filtration - he's very helpful.
 
Haha, thanks for the info man, and I agree with evolving as you learn more ... I felt this filter was going to be perfect, since I tried to fix the problems I had with the sump in my 220, which was, IMO, not enough mechanical because of the pile of sediment I found in the bottom of the sump, which is so difficult to get to .... this tank's sump has a more efricient mechanical, and is easy to get any sediment that trickles out, but could be better of course ... my biggest fear was that by putting filter pads above all the bio balls, I was creating a seal, and once water started pooling on top, I was nervous it was strangling the system, since one of the huge benefits of a sump is the ability to breath .... the bio balls in the sump are able to breath, but the ones in the overflow columns def have water pooling above the filter pad within a day and I get nevous thinking its working less efficient, but I just dont know since I dont know how to check it .... there is, however, a remarkable difference in the health of the fish in my 220 vs my 400, and I think its mostly due to a higher turnover and less sediment being formed ... my datnoids did not like being moved back to the 220, in fact a few died, for these reasons, and pH reasons .... I'm very excited to see the improvements again in the next tank I get for sure .... and your def leading me to begin "experimenting" on this one .... my goal is in the next few months empty the 220 and revamp a lot of things with it, and get it running much more smoothly .... thanks for the advice, and I know who to call with filter question! Lol!

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I've noticed a huge difference in my fish based on the amount of detritus in the filters. The water can test perfectly as far as no2, no3 and ammonia, but for some reason the mum trapped by my mechanical filtration causes my gatf to go off of his diet. I'm starting to dislike my fx5 because of this; its great at bio but it is a horrendously inconvenient thing to clean.

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I've noticed a huge difference in my fish based on the amount of detritus in the filters. The water can test perfectly as far as no2, no3 and ammonia, but for some reason the mum trapped by my mechanical filtration causes my gatf to go off of his diet. I'm starting to dislike my fx5 because of this; its great at bio but it is a horrendously inconvenient thing to clean.

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The "mum"..... LMAO. I could easily fly off on a rant about the "mum". I personally believe this "mum" to be a huge factor when it comes to loosing rays. I've lost rays for years, I'll openly admit I've lost more then my fair share. I used to run a giant wet/dry on my pond. 3 different filter pads in each tower, a foam pad, a medium pad, and a fine pad. Moderately stocked 700 gallon pond. I'd get bacterial outbreaks at least every 5-6 months. For the first year I thought it was dirty freshly imported rays, but after no new rays were introduced I still had the problem. All water parameters tested perfect, but when I broke down the filter what did I find every time? You guessed it. Mum. I think that the mum isn't necessarily poop, but rather dead bio that can't escape the scrubbies. Who had this problem more then wet/dry users? Canister filter users, which I also used.

A simple dig in the archives will find lots of dead rays, dying in water with perfect parameters, and what do the keepers eventually find? A mucked up mess in the filter.

Fast forward several years and many, many filtration rebuilds...... Since my big tank went up with a pair of reactors handling most of the bio load I haven't found much mum anywhere in the system. I switched to the double sewn 100/200 micron socks that are housed in what I call the mechanical filtration heads which are 55 gallon tanks, that I can easily switch socks in which gets done at least once a week. Guess how many bacterial outbreaks? None. So many coincidences that it's hard to overlook. I don't think scrubbies are good for bio. I don't think pads are good for mechanical. I think the ideal filtration system for our monsters is a radial flow separator, to a bank of 200/100 socks, then to a bank of 100/50 socks. From there to the reactors, then wet/dries, and lastly some ceramic media. The RFS (radial flow separator) is a mind blowing concept. Basically you'd be able to flush solid waste out of the system with the crack of a valve. Similar to a vortex or settling chamber, except a RFS actually works. You could easily do this twice a day. The socks will catch anything above 50 micron. The bio chips in the moving bed take out everything up to 5 micron.

My theory is I have more trouble then most keepers cause my PH is 8.5. Most people can get away with murder compared to what I can get away with cause my fish are already stressed from the liquid rock tap water. IF you have nice acidic soft water then your fish are less stressed from the get go, so you can let the filter go longer, but it seems eventually if left unchecked the mum will eventually harbor some nasty crap, which we see as disease, and treat with meds, when really they're just stressed from the lack of maintenance. Some theorize the mum or whatever is in the mum impacts oxygen content in the water. All I know is I never thought twice about it till I started seeing more and more as the feeding size increased. You guys feeding a hand full of pellets to a tank might not ever see it spiral out of control, but when you're shoveling POUNDS of frozen food along with pellets into a tank it can get crazy quick if not kept under control.

I've always thought there's some important water chemistry number that we need to monitor that our test kits don't. The test kits to test ammo nitrite and nitrate seem almost worthless. Maybe there's some more useful numbers to watch? ORP? Conductivity? TDS? Maybe there's something to the hardnesses?

All I know is the longer I keep fish, the more I think there needs to be more focus on the water. People have and still continue to tell me water doesn't mater, fish adapt to anything, and I'd probably say that too IF I was down in the 6s or even 7 PH wise, but being closer to 9 then 8 I'm guessing that this makes the margin for error with things like mum much, much smaller.
 
I couldnt agree with you more, as far as the focus should be more on water ... fish can adapt, much like us, but only to a point ... yes we can survive living in a card board box and picking food out of dumpsters, but we wouldnt be as healthy and be much more prone to disease than if we lived otherwise ... this "mum" you talk about I agree is a huge deal! I truly believe it is why I lost a few of my datnoids when I moved them back into my 220 ... I have much less mechanical filtration in it, and the bio balls and sump have more gunk because of the lack 9f mechanical ... not to mention dead bacteria being sloughed off over the years ... my 400 is newer, has much more mechanical, thus it runs much cleaner ... and I agree its very possible to have great water params and still have this gunk, and thus less healthy fish ... I def want to talk more with you about this moving bed filtration, see what your filter set ups look like, among other things, and how a reator is able to flush out these very small particles that can make it through filter socks and filter pads ... filtration is what makes the tank work, bottom line, and I'm becoming much more interested in DIY type stuff .... once I figure out the theory behind something I can often figure out a way to make it work, even with my rudimentary handy man knowledge, but I am getting better, and WANT to learn these things, which is usually all the drive it takes ... the want to improve and learn

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