Baby Flathead Catfish

[jjohnwm]

I just noticed the OP is in Wisconsin! Had no idea that Flatheads ranged that far north. Interesting.

Just looked at a couple range maps for the species; apparently they are all the way into North Dakota!

Of course, that just means that my province will ban them if they haven't already...

 

[Tigerboy3382]

Any pics?

I can't get any photos uploaded to share. They are all too big of files

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

You could use the print-screen function or snip-tool.

 

[Rougarou]

This has got to be some kind of troll. How does one even differentiate a 2 inch flathead from any other species of catfish the same size?

Since the subject of noodling was brought up, here's the reality of what noodlers actually do. When those fish are in those holes, they aren't there for fun, they're sitting on nests, keeping the eggs clean, aerated, and protected. When these fish are pulled off the nest, the nest is comprehensively destroyed. Future generations of fish have been effectively killed every time a Flathead is pulled off it's nest.

 

[jjohnwm]

This has got to be some kind of troll. How does one even differentiate a 2 inch flathead from any other species of catfish the same size?

Since the subject of noodling was brought up, here's the reality of what noodlers actually do. When those fish are in those holes, they aren't there for fun, they're sitting on nests, keeping the eggs clean, aerated, and protected. When these fish are pulled off the nest, the nest is comprehensively destroyed. Future generations of fish have been effectively killed every time a Flathead is pulled off it's nest.

Speaking of trolls...

I've never seen a tiny Flathead, but I know that at 2 inches it is instantly obvious whether a cat is a Channel, a Bullhead, a Stonecat or a Madtom. A two-incher of any of these is not some embryonic shapeless mass; it's a fully-formed little catfish, easily distinguishable. I doubt that a Flathead varies from that pattern.

As for the "reality" of noodling, that would indeed be disturbing if true. Is it true? Some reputable citations would be appreciated. I'm not one to automatically believe that every law in existence is based upon an intelligent desire to do good...far from it, in fact...but virtually all fish and game laws and regulations are intended to protect the resource in question; fish, game birds and animals, whatever. I find it very difficult to believe that noodling is given carte blanche in so many areas when it is so destructive to spawning cats.

How about it? Can you back this startling assertion up with some evidence that doesn't originate with PETA or another equally ludicrous source?

 

[Fishyboy🐟🐟🐟]

T

Speaking of trolls...

I've never seen a tiny Flathead, but I know that at 2 inches it is instantly obvious whether a cat is a Channel, a Bullhead, a Stonecat or a Madtom. A two-incher of any of these is not some embryonic shapeless mass; it's a fully-formed little catfish, easily distinguishable. I doubt that a Flathead varies from that pattern.

As for the "reality" of noodling, that would indeed be disturbing if true. Is it true? Some reputable citations would be appreciated. I'm not one to automatically believe that every law in existence is based upon an intelligent desire to do good...far from it, in fact...but virtually all fish and game laws and regulations are intended to protect the resource in question; fish, game birds and animals, whatever. I find it very difficult to believe that noodling is given carte blanche in so many areas when it is so destructive to spawning cats.

How about it? Can you back this startling assertion up with some evidence that doesn't originate with PETA or another equally ludicrous source?

There is truth to their post
Some are there to breed and protect the eggs
When removed it exposes the eggs to predators, some eggs are eaten, some are not
They also are there for fun sometimes, like a house, some people even call it catfish hotels

 

[wednesday13]

This has got to be some kind of troll. How does one even differentiate a 2 inch flathead from any other species of catfish the same size?

Since the subject of noodling was brought up, here's the reality of what noodlers actually do. When those fish are in those holes, they aren't there for fun, they're sitting on nests, keeping the eggs clean, aerated, and protected. When these fish are pulled off the nest, the nest is comprehensively destroyed. Future generations of fish have been effectively killed every time a Flathead is pulled off it's nest.

sure some may be pulled off nests at a certain time of year thats a blanket statement tho. Noodlers “cheat” in the first place setting out tires, metal tubes, dog houses etc. for the flatties to hide in and then They go back and check their “hides”. Aside from cheating there checking “holes” not nests. Under cement docks, rocks and what not.
I agree with u in that a 2” catfish is most likely not a flathead, y i asked the OP for pics. No use “flaming” the kid when we dont even know what it is for sure yet. Id wager its a madtom or bullhead. Never know tho, weve seen a handful of collected flathead juvies pop up on here over the yrs.

 

[jjohnwm]

Some interesting opinions and cautions on the internet regarding noodling. Some states ban it outright, based upon the potential damage to spawning fish; while others recently moved the opening of noodling season up from June to the beginning of May, which would only increase the potential damage done to the nests. Are they ignoring the dangers created? One hopes that they are monitoring catfish populations and tailoring the seasons to allow for a sustainable harvest of fish.

That's the correct viewpoint for a game/fish manager to adopt, i.e. the fish population as a whole is a natural resource, and the utilization/depletion of this resource...its harvesting...must be controlled so as to allow a sustainable "take" of fish that does not threaten the overall population. Obviously, this will vary from area to area, which would explain the differences in regulations from state to state regarding noodling (or any other taking of fish).

Are the fish taken mostly for food, as would have been the case in the past? Or are they typically taken for sport and then live-released?

The comment "When these fish are pulled off the nest, the nest is comprehensively destroyed" needs to be explained; does the brief removal of a fish from the nest followed by its immediate release still have a catastrophic result for the nest? Are most of the fish in fact nesting...or do they spend the bulk of the day in a hide at all seasons, coming out to feed more actively at night?

The statement that "Future generations of fish have been effectively killed every time a Flathead is pulled off it's nest" is undeniably true. Whenever a fish or other animal is killed at any time in any way, obviously its contribution to the continuation of its species has ended. Phrasing it that way seems designed to tug at the heartstrings; every individual fish must be protected for its entire natural lifespan, because otherwise future generations are at risk? Again, conservation needs to look at the species as a whole, not at individual fish; and if the species as a whole survives, thrives and even expands (as it must be doing if it's apparently becoming invasive in new waters), then harvesting a percentage of them is completely acceptable.

I'm using the term "harvesting" rather than "killing" because nowadays that's apparently a required strategy to minimize the stress caused to the squeamish and/or gullible. But let's be honest: we eat fish, and that means we kill them. It doesn't necessarily mean we are harming their populations...and conservations laws exist to ensure that we do not.

I'm not asking these questions hoping for an answer here on MFK; they are simply a sample of the factors that must be considered when regulating the harvest...yeah, that word again... of the sustainable natural resource that the fish represent.

wednesday13 brings up all the extra little tidbits regarding artificial creation of shelters to attract the fish; should that be condemned or encouraged? As is usually the case in debates like this, there will be people doing both!

 

[Yellowcat]

Interesting thread! First I must commend tigerboy for his intent to learn about keeping fish and flatheads in particular, seeking advice on this site. I know a little bit about flathead catfish (My screen name is Texas slang for the species as is my avatar illustration) and as an avid angler for pylodictis olivaris, I spend several weeks a year fishing for them, seeking large specimens up to 50 lbs. to catch and release. In the case of this fish, a photo would really help as some folks cannot tell the difference between a flathead or other native Wisconsin cat species such as black, brown and yellow bullheads or the native madtom species found there, just sayin'. Sure you could find a cheap used 50G aquarium, an air pump and filter to keep one alive for a while but they are a fast growing species and it could easily grow to a foot long in the first year and then you would need something like a 150G tank until it would grow to 18" or so in the second year needing an upgrade from that. Being my favorite species I would love to have a juvenile version to grow out while learning about their habits and behaviors but as I live in Cali it is highly illegal to catch one (or any other fish) on hook and line and transport it alive. It seems many have tried to find one online for sale which hasn't been seen that I know of. Even then I would be faced with the dilemma of what to do with it when it outgrew it's tank, releasing it into a lake or river is also forbidden by law and ethically wrong and trying to sell it online would raise many red flags concerning keeping/selling native fish species I wouldn't want to deal with. (They are not a native species to California or Arizona but introduced by Arizona into the Colorado River in 1964.) Should the fish in question be a bullhead species it would be a great candidate for a first pet catfish as they are a hardy species and very tolerant of adverse water conditions, only growing to about a foot long and could be kept for life in a 60-75G tank. Folks I know at the river kept a couple of flatheads in a cattle/horse stock tank and were quite tame and docile pets at the time. In any case I can relate to the interest in keeping wild creatures, I too have kept snakes, caiman alligators, tarantulas, turtles and frogs and a wild bird as pets over the years, my first pet catfish was a black bullhead I caught as a kid at my local lake when it was still legal to do so... All considered I might also recommend that it be released back into the wild where you caught it, if not, learn as much as you can to properly care for it with the appropriate ways and means at your disposal...

 

[Rougarou]

Speaking of trolls...

I've never seen a tiny Flathead, but I know that at 2 inches it is instantly obvious whether a cat is a Channel, a Bullhead, a Stonecat or a Madtom. A two-incher of any of these is not some embryonic shapeless mass; it's a fully-formed little catfish, easily distinguishable. I doubt that a Flathead varies from that pattern.

As for the "reality" of noodling, that would indeed be disturbing if true. Is it true? Some reputable citations would be appreciated. I'm not one to automatically believe that every law in existence is based upon an intelligent desire to do good...far from it, in fact...but virtually all fish and game laws and regulations are intended to protect the resource in question; fish, game birds and animals, whatever. I find it very difficult to believe that noodling is given carte blanche in so many areas when it is so destructive to spawning cats.

How about it? Can you back this startling assertion up with some evidence that doesn't originate with PETA or another equally ludicrous source?

I can guarantee that the assertion isn't based on any animal rights activism. It's source is widely held as common sense, based on the practice of noodling itself. I'll even give most noodlers the benefit of the doubt of not being fully conscious of what they are actually doing. When that fish is sitting on its nest in a hole, and some clown sticks his/her arm in that hole, the first instinct of the fish is to repel that threat. Once that fish is grabbed by the jaw, or through the gills, the instinct becomes survival. The thrashing alone most likely means game over for the eggs. If the eggs manage to survive that, now the fish is pulled off the nest for an undetermined amount of time, now the eggs are no longer being oxygenated and kept clean of silt. Not to mention the threat from predators looking for an easy meal. A generation of potential future breeders is gone. Thats the reality of noodling.