Baby Flathead Catfish

[jjohnwm]

I can guarantee that the assertion isn't based on any animal rights activism. It's source is widely held as common sense, based on the practice of noodling itself. I'll even give most noodlers the benefit of the doubt of not being fully conscious of what they are actually doing. When that fish is sitting on its nest in a hole, and some clown sticks his/her arm in that hole, the first instinct of the fish is to repel that threat. Once that fish is grabbed by the jaw, or through the gills, the instinct becomes survival. The thrashing alone most likely means game over for the eggs. If the eggs manage to survive that, now the fish is pulled off the nest for an undetermined amount of time, now the eggs are no longer being oxygenated and kept clean of silt. Not to mention the threat from predators looking for an easy meal. A generation of potential future breeders is gone. Thats the reality of noodling.

"It's source is widely held as common sense"? So, to put it differently...there's no actual study or science that supports this view, but instead it's just a case of "Well, obviously..."?

It kills some fish, plain and simple. No argument. If the nest destruction thing is real...and, again, I don't want to hear that "common sense" tells you that, but rather that this is a known, proven fact...then it kills a lot of "potential" or "future" fish as well. But as long as the population doesn't suffer because of the loss...as long as the annual take does not exceed the ability of the population to replace annually...then it may be distasteful to some, but that alone isn't...or shouldn't be...reason to start swinging the ban hammer.

Again...what percentage of noodled Flatheads are taken and eaten...and what percentage are released after a quick picture? Live release fishing continues to make up an increasing percentage of sport fishing in general. Are you claiming that the removal of an adult from a nest results in the instantaneous death to the eggs/fry due to lack of oxygenation and being buried in silt? Releasing the adult a minute or so later won't save them? That's a tough sell. You are also stating that the physical act of wrestling the adult out of the water will mechanically destroy the eggs. Again...does it really? Or is it just "common sense" that tells you that?

Common sense is much less common than one might think. Some of us want at least a modicum of proof beyond "Because I say so!"

You've made me think about this, no question. If...big "if" for me...I ever get the chance to do it again, I will want to do some research on the ideas presented. I am not averse to killing a critter to eat it...haven't bought meat (except chicken) at a store in many years, and the freezer doesn't fill itself without the expenditure of some lead or a pointy stick...but I won't kill indiscriminately and without considering my actions.

But, to be honest, there is very little about your arguments as presented that I find convincing.

 

[phreeflow]

I am a young fish owner but have kept many other large pets and reading your message just now, I about cried knowing that there is someone out there who isn't trying to talk me down and tell me that I am not capable of caring for an animal. Thank you so much. I was really starting to think that this wasn't the right site to get answers and help as a first time fish owner. As a pet owner of large animals, I make sure to have the space needed for each and every one of them. I really appreciate reading your thread. Thank you so much again for your positive words.

... and with me turning 19 in a few weeks, I can assure anyone who doubts my ability to care for such a large creature that I do my research on housing but only ask for extra advice and tips that google or pet stores can't offer

Don’t mind the hazing. It’s mostly done out of concern for the fish but it can get overboard at times. Just like there are grammar police, there are fish police and I’m sure reptile police and so on.

I personally have never met a hobbyist who didn’t unwittingly start out with too small a tank or end up mixing the wrong species before learning and graduating into bigger tanks and better equipment to setup proper habitats. Good on you for searching out proper info from the start

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Thank you. Let's go back to the issue at hand: Tigerboy3382 please post some good photos of your baby catfish, so we make sure we are on the same page.

 

[Tigerboy3382]

my laptop says that the files are too big but i will keep trying

I did move them to a bigger aquarium. a 2ft by 1ft by 1ft

I put lots of places for them to hide such as aquatic plants and rocks and soft sand for them to burrow in if they decide to. They do prefer to snug their way inside or next to the plants and have been eating

I am mainly on my laptop because I am a Wildlife Photographer so I edit and post all my work from my laptop

 

[Rougarou]

"It's source is widely held as common sense"? So, to put it differently...there's no actual study or science that supports this view, but instead it's just a case of "Well, obviously..."?

It kills some fish, plain and simple. No argument. If the nest destruction thing is real...and, again, I don't want to hear that "common sense" tells you that, but rather that this is a known, proven fact...then it kills a lot of "potential" or "future" fish as well. But as long as the population doesn't suffer because of the loss...as long as the annual take does not exceed the ability of the population to replace annually...then it may be distasteful to some, but that alone isn't...or shouldn't be...reason to start swinging the ban hammer.

Again...what percentage of noodled Flatheads are taken and eaten...and what percentage are released after a quick picture? Live release fishing continues to make up an increasing percentage of sport fishing in general. Are you claiming that the removal of an adult from a nest results in the instantaneous death to the eggs/fry due to lack of oxygenation and being buried in silt? Releasing the adult a minute or so later won't save them? That's a tough sell. You are also stating that the physical act of wrestling the adult out of the water will mechanically destroy the eggs. Again...does it really? Or is it just "common sense" that tells you that?

Common sense is much less common than one might think. Some of us want at least a modicum of proof beyond "Because I say so!"

You've made me think about this, no question. If...big "if" for me...I ever get the chance to do it again, I will want to do some research on the ideas presented. I am not averse to killing a critter to eat it...haven't bought meat (except chicken) at a store in many years, and the freezer doesn't fill itself without the expenditure of some lead or a pointy stick...but I won't kill indiscriminately and without considering my actions.

But, to be honest, there is very little about your arguments as presented that I find convincing.

I can't offer any empirical scientific data, mainly because it doesn't seem to exist. However, just because it doesn't exist, it doesn't make the statement any less true. Not trying to cast any aspersions, but it's hard to figure out why you find the collateral damage caused by noodling so hard to believe. The proof is in the practice. No data is needed to know that the by catch caught in draggers and trawlers nets goes overboard dead. It's a function of the action. If some degree of proof is actually needed, check out some videos posted on YouTube of internet heroes noodling Flatheads. I'm sure some buffoon has strapped a camera to their arm so the devastation can be witnessed first hand, if it seems unbelievable.

 

[jjohnwm]

R Rougarou , it's not hard to figure out at all, it's the second paragraph in my post #44. But we have sidetracked this thread enough and aroused the ire of our fellows, so let's agree to disagree.

OP, how does a nature photographer have so much trouble posting a pic online? Jeez, even I can do it...and I am a complete computer illiterate.

We gotta see this semi-mythical critter; if it turns out to be a sucker or carp or something, I for one will be miffed...

 

[Tigerboy3382]

You want proof.........I'll give you the ****ing proof

This was a photo I took before I placed him in his 2 ft by 1 ft by 1ft tank. I will send you a photo of the tank in the morning. But I definetly don't take this kind of respect nicely. I came to this website to find answers on how to care for this guy, not to be criticized upon

 

[Fishyboy🐟🐟🐟]

Not

This was a photo I took before I placed him in his 2 ft by 1 ft by 1ft tank. I will send you a photo of the tank in the morning. But I definetly don't take this kind of respect nicely. I came to this website to find answers on how to care for this guy, not to be criticized upon

View attachment 1524348

Not to make you any angrier but, to me it looks like a bullhead, at this size it’s pretty hard for me to differentiate, I have a yellow bullhead and they look similar in body shape but, I am not an expert so it still could quite possibly be a flathead, only time/ other members will tell
Congrats on getting it to upload lol
But tbh idk
And enjoy your baby cat!

 

[Tigerboy3382]

Not

Not to make you any angrier but, to me it looks like a bullhead, at this size it’s pretty hard for me to differentiate, I have a yellow bullhead and they look similar in body shape but, I am not an expert so it still could quite possibly be a flathead, only time/ other members will tell
Congrats on getting it to upload lol

Well look up Lake Beulah Wisconsin fish and tell me what catfish result you get because it is a bullhead. Flathead is another name for a bullhead. wootee me on getting a photo uploaded that NO ONE BELIEVED I HAD! Why can't anyone just be nice and criticize all the time? I know my animals, I am a Wildlife Photographer and have been into animals since I have very little.

 

[Fishyboy🐟🐟🐟]

Well look up Lake Beulah Wisconsin fish and tell me what catfish result you get because it is a bullhead. Flathead is another name for a bullhead. wootee me on getting a photo uploaded that NO ONE BELIEVED I HAD! Why can't anyone just be nice and criticize all the time? I know my animals, I am a Wildlife Photographer and have been into animals since I have very little.

Flathead is another name for bullhead? I’ve could have sworn they were different species, I have a yellow bullhead and I’ve done all my research and they max a foot and flatheads max 4f, in my state there are no flatheads and the only cats are bulls and channel I think, though your state may call them the same name, my don’t so I apologize, I didn’t mean to criticize you and if I did I am sorry, it was just my piece I guess
Sorry