Best pellet mix up.

[hamfist]

So NLS would be the best pellet food for my fish? Can I also feed them shrimp pellets as a treat.

Sounds to me that NLS is as good as any, and possibly the best, staple pellet. If you are looking for one to go with then I would choose that one, after all the discussion we've just read here.
I'm sure shrimp pellets as a treat will be just fine.

 

[RD.]

Feed the food that you already have, as it gets used up think outside the box a bit & decide what path you want to take when you need more food.

Asking about shrimp pellets is pretty vague, some have more filler in them than shrimp, some are decent quality food. That question actually reminds of one that was posted on Big One's favourite site a while back. The OP was asking about feeding koi food to his FH. You might recognize the avatar of the last person to post in that discussion.

Posted in the "Experts" discussion section.

http://www.flowerhorncraze.com/index.php?showtopic=74230


HTH

 

[east_bay]

hey i have 2 jags that just breed and i wanted to start a tread for help can someone tell me how i can start a tread

 

[BIG_ONE]

LOL, I sometimes wonder why I even bother.

Commercial trout farms don't feed "super high quality pellets", for the very reason that you provided - their fish are simply being raised for human consumption - which equates to the fastest growth they can get out of the fish, in the least amount of time possible, for as little cost as humanly possible. Longevity doesn't even come into play. Your buddy & you obviously never had a necropsy performed on any of your fish, or you would know exactly what I am talking about. Excess lipid deposition & necrosis of the liver isn't a very pretty sight when viewed up close & personal, which is typically the result when trout feed is fed to warm water species, such as cichlids.

Same result as NLS? Dream on.

Unless a farm is actually making their own food (and I'm not aware of any that are) they simply can't afford to feed "super high quality pellets", and your suggesting that's what they are doing, just proves how ignorant you are on this subject. The feed costs on a commercial farm can run between 40-70% of their total operating costs - and feeding that type of food would put most farms out of business in less than 6 months.

Experts on flowerhorncraze? I wouldn't use the term expert to describe anyone on that site, let alone experts on fish nutrition.
So what if they have been in the hobby for over 10 yrs, I'm old enough to be the father to most of them, and grandfather to quite a few of them.
10 yrs of keeping fish is hardly a blip on the radar to an old fart like me.

Of course a fishes genes are primary, as is water quality, but that doesn't equate to a fishes diet making up only 5-10% of it's overal health, and/or longevity.

Where do you come up with these asinine ideas, from the so called expert comments on FHcraze?

Unbelievable .........

Who ever said anything about commercial trout farm? So a hands on experienced and now your saying its all BS? Now you should elaborate more on how am I ignorant if I tried it myself and see the result myself. Maybe you should try it before placing the word "ignorant" anywhere. And talk about experts on flowerhorncraze, they are there. But they don't tell you whats what, you can start PMing Lucky and he'll break down the tree from certain fish and how they are made into if food really makes a huge difference in your fish differential(I know a few people on FHcraze who would shed a couple racks for one fish - care them like their own child). And I never said anything about health in those 5-10% range, I'm talking about the fish potential itself. Health itself is all on you, regardless on what type of food you want to feed them. Regardless how long you been keeping fish, we are talking about flowerhorns here in general.

 

[tiddlywinks]

can i jump in saying that hemp pellets are the best

jk

but NLS would be my vote for a good pellet (not talking about just for flowerhorns)
but for sa/ca cichlids

 

[honda237]

can i jump in saying that hemp pellets are the best

jk

but NLS would be my vote for a good pellet (not talking about just for flowerhorns)
but for sa/ca cichlids

I switched over from all the other food, and pretty much only feed NLS, i've noticed an improvement in my fader already.

 

[RD.]

Who ever said anything about commercial trout farm?

You did.

Believe it or not, a buddy of mine feeds a lot of trout pellets from a salmon/trout hatchery to his flowerhorns as a staple

Whether a hatchery is designed for monetary or non-monetary gains, it still pertains to commerce (supplying commodities) which makes it a commercial enterprise.

I also never once said that one can't get "results" from this type of food, you might want to go back & actually read what I posted, and what the results of long term feeding of a high lipid diet to cichlids will result in.
This is not just my opinion, but the opinion of those who are considered experts in the field of fish nutrition. Not some jokers who hang out on FH forums.

To quote Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd, a professor at the U of Florida, the Director of the Universities Aquatic Animal Health Program, a DVM who specializes in health related issues in the ornamental fish industry, and who is considered an expert by her peers in this area;

"Fatty infiltration of the liver has also been designated "the most common metabolic disturbance and most frequent cause of death in aquarium fish"

With prolonged feeding of a high-energy, lipid rich diet, degenerative changes of the liver and death can occur unless the diet is corrected.

I've been promoting sound husbandry practices (such as limiting a cichlids fat intake) for many years, long before any of the specialty FH foods were on the market. None of this comes as news to me. Most trout chows contain 15-20% crude fat, some salmon feeds as much as 35% crude fat.

I don't need to "try it", to fully understand what the end result will be from feeding that type of diet, anymore than I need to place my face on a red hot burner of a stove, to understand what that end result will be.

You can't simply look at a fish on the outside, and conclude that a fish is in prime health. Excessive lipid deposition & necrosis of the liver doesn't just happen overnight, and when/if it is the cause of premature death, short of a necropsy most hobbyists will never know what caused the "sudden" death of their prized pet fish.


I also don't need to PM Lucky, or anyone else to understand that the dietary requirements of a FH are exactly the same as any one of the various CA cichlids that a FH's genetics are based on. FH are omnivores, and with regards to nutrition FH breeders sure as hell didn't recreate the wheel when developing their hybrid strains.




Cheers

 

[FishingOut]

Goes without saying, RD is absolutely correct.
Trout feeds specialize in using the cheapest formula they can, as well as grow the trout as fast as they possibly can. Idiots, will say "hey, its high in protein" Yeah well those proteins are derived from fish/chicken meals in the higher quality feeds and more vegetable derived proteins on the more lower grades.
If you believe thats a proper diet for a tropical fish, then who am I to stop you. I know I certainly wouldnt feed my fish this junk considering there are much more reliable, healthier forms of proteins out there. Ones without such high lipids, That wont cause fatty build-ups around the organs.
1 ton of NLS- $20,000
1 ton trout feed- $700
Thats all you need to know about which feed is better for your fish.

Heres an interesting tidbit I found on the boards here:

VITAMINS and what they do
(If you want to suppliment vitamins use only vitamin products developed for fish
do not use vitamnins developed for humans use.)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Fat Soluble Vitamins
VITAMIN A promotes cellular growth
Functions: - normal vision, cell growth and resistance to infection
Deficiencies: - poor growth, poor vision, abnormal bone formation and
hemorrhaging at the base of the fins
VITAMIN D3 important for developing bone
Functions: - calcium blood levels (?)
Deficiencies: - unknown
VITAMIN E important for the development of the sex organs in breeding fish
Functions: - antioxidant, may paly a role in muscle cell respiration
Deficiencies: - anemia and poor growth
-------------------------------------------------------------
Water Soluble Vitamins
VITAMIN (B1)
Functions: - Thiamine-aids growth, digestion and fertility, nervous system
Deficiencies: - poor appetite, muscle atrophy, convulsions, loss of
equilibrium and poor growth
VITAMIN B2 Riboflavin- regulates enzymes
Functions: - vision, protein metabolism and enzyme functioning
Deficiencies: - photophobia, cloudy lens, dim vision, abnormal
colouration of the iris, striated constrictions on the
abdominal wall, dark pigmentation, poor appetite,
anemia and poor growth
VITAMIN B3 Nicotinic Acid-needed for proper digestion
Functions: - plays an important role in lipid, protein and amino
acid metabolism
Deficiencies: - loss of appetite, poor growth, lesions in colon,
erratic motion and weakness, edema of stomach and
colon
VITAMIN B5 Pantothenic Acid-controls metbolism and hormones
Functions: - adrenal functioning, cholersterol production, normal
physiology and metabolism
Deficiencies: - poor growth, sluggishness, clubbed gills, loss of
appetite, hemmorhagic skin and cellular atrophy
VITAMIN B6 Pyroxidine-enzymes and metabolism of protein
Functions: - plays a vital role in enzyme systems and protein
metabolism
Deficiencies: - nervous dissorders, fits, loss of appetite, poor
growth, rapid and gasping breathing, flexing of
opercles and hyperirritability
VITAMIN B12 Cyanocobalamin- metabolism
Functions: - enzyme systems, cholesterol metabolism
Deficiencies: - poor appetite, poor growth, anemia and dark
pigmentation
VITAMIN C Ascorbic Acid- formation fo teeth and bones , healing wounds and formation of
cartillage
Functions: - enzyme systems, bone, tooth and cartilage formation
and healing
Deficiencies: - hemorrhagic shin, kidneys, liver, intestine and muscle
tissue, eye lesions and scoliosis of the spine
VITAMIN H Biotin- promotes cell growth
Functions: - enzyme systems, purine and lipid synthesis, oxidation
of lipids and carbohydrates
Deficiencies: - loss of appetite, poor growth, anemia, skin lesions
and muscle atrophy
VITAMIN M Folic Acid- formation of blood and metabolism
Functions: - blood cell formation, blood glucose regulation and
fish metabolism
Deficiencies: - poor growth, lethargy, dark skin, anemia and fragility
of the caudal fin
CHOLIN growth and breakdown nutrients (fat) regulating glucose
Functions: - good growth and food conversion
Deficiencies: - poor growth, poor food conversion, hemorrhagic kidney
and intestine
INOSITOL permeability of cell membrane
Deficiencies: - poor growth, distended stomach, skin lesions and
increased gastric emptying time
p-AMINOBENZOID ACID- stimulates growth (not proven essential)
Deficiencies: - no abnormal indication in growth, appetite and
mortality

free in water the following happens After 30 seconds this applies to
water soluble vitamins only
Vitamin b6 loss 15%
Folic Acid loss 20%
Choline loss 30%
Panothenic acid loss 50%
Vitamin C loss 70%
Vitamin B12 loss 90%

 

[RD.]

free in water the following happens After 30 seconds this applies to water soluble vitamins only

Vitamin b6 loss 15%
Folic Acid loss 20%
Choline loss 30%
Panothenic acid loss 50%
Vitamin C loss 70%
Vitamin B12 loss 90%

That may apply to some feed, but certainly not all. More what one might experience in flake food, but certainly not in a quality pellet. Pellets are more nutrient dense, and far more stable in water compared to flake food.

But still, you are right in the fact that the faster a fish consumes the food once it enters the tank, the better. Tossing a "handful" of food in your tank at once is definitely counter productive, unless your fish are very quick eaters.

 

[east_bay]

can someone tell me how i can start my own tread because i need help with my breeding jaguars