blue pike

[E_americanus]

first off, richard summarized the whole issue pretty well...blue pike are effectively gone. period, end of story (for the blue pike).

the rest of my response is in RED.

The great lakes are massive bodys of water so its almost impossible for people to eliminate all of them, the only way they could disapear is if they hybridized with walleye.
no, this is not the only way they could disappear...disease, overfishing, habitat loss, recruitment failure...the list goes on...

People find species that were thought to be extint all the time. Animals that live in a massive area that get hunted out or in this case get fished out will move to other parts of the area.
true, and possible, but they will die out if the 'other parts of the area' do not contain appropriate habitat for the survival of the organism.

Yes food and climate can change the apperence of the fish but not drasticly.
this is not the case, look up phenotypic plasticity and all sort of other literature about genetics and the environment regarding fishes...fishes actually respond quite fast in terms of morphological changes due to phenotypic plasticity and evolution than other vertebrates.

I bet if you caught 10 walleye out of lake Erie and DNA tested all of them, some would have blue walleye DNA present.
maybe (but not likely with a sample of only 10 fish), but blue pike are merely a subspecies, so there are bound to be a lot of commonalities between the two...we're not talking about two different species here.

Ive also heard they stocked blue walleye long ago in different bodys of water in Canada, Wisconsin, Minnisota.
The blue walleye is just an adaption of a normal walleye where one dominant trait in certain fish survived and breed with others untill they populated the lakes. Probly started of as just a color morph that blended in more and was less likly to get seen by predators then a normal walleye.
not necessarily; blue pike were endemic to the Great Lakes region relatively close to post-glaciation. if anything they were wiped out and genetic lines on decline as well. they were a young subspecies overall.

Just like the great Lakes muskie compared to other strains of muskie it just hasnt adaped for a long enough time period to be a subspecies.
this is more the area of populations, not subspecies (which can be quite nebulous). just because you have two distinct populations of Esox americanus americanus (grass pickerel) doesn't mean they are going to end up as two separate subspecies.

--solomon

 

[MultispeciesTamer]

2nd link was not totally about blue pike but the map shows where blue pike where and blue pike have been caught. Blue pike where found primarly in lake Erie and Ontario but had the chance to go into the other great lakes. They also were found in many rivers eastward from the 2 great lakes where they lived

this amount of water is huge and theres plenty of places for the fish to be its like looking for a handful of needles in a hay stack and you wonder why the Dnr hasnt found any, only time will tell if they are still some out there.

 

[ewurm]

I have seen plenty of posts, stories, etc about someone who caught a Blue Pike. Apparently, these people never have a camera on hand and always release the fish. It's unfortunate, but if the Blue Pike was still an established species we would have at least one story to hang onto that contained some sort of reliable evidence. There just aren't any out there.

 

[ewurm]

2nd link was not totally about blue pike but the map shows where blue pike where and blue pike have been caught. Blue pike where found primarly in lake Erie and Ontario but had the chance to go into the other great lakes. They also were found in many rivers eastward from the 2 great lakes where they lived

this amount of water is huge and theres plenty of places for the fish to be its like looking for a handful of needles in a hay stack and you wonder why the Dnr hasnt found any, only time will tell if they are still some out there.

If there are only a few left and despite massive fishing of the great lakes and a concentrated search we can't find them. This would lead me to believe that any population that exists is so small that it isn't a breeding population. They are gone.

 

[E_americanus]

If there are only a few left and despite massive fishing of the great lakes and a concentrated search we can't find them. This would lead me to believe that any population that exists is so small that it isn't a breeding population. They are gone.

agreed. the population is effectively extinct.

trust us multispeciestamer, they're gone--
--solomon

 

[MultispeciesTamer]

unless they clone them muh ah aha ha










JK

 

[ewurm]

unless they clone them muh ah aha ha










JK

Have to have viable DNA to do that. I wonder if any has been stored. Would make an interesting public aquaria display tank.

 

[MultispeciesTamer]

I read somewhere most the preserved specimens Dna has been lost
I cant seem to find it again tho

 

[Eamiles]

Well here's a very ammature at best idea:

The idea that the blue pike has gone extinct is very probable becuase, despite our best efforts, no one has found any, true. What if though, they adapted to thrive in a different environment, say they made it to Huron and are in incredibly deep water. They could have evolved to do so and may not be the true Blue Pike that they once were but still the closest thing to it thats still alive. They could also be in such small numbers still that we have not yet seen them, or maybe they have been caught and no consideration was taken towards what was caught. I am not saying this is what I believe, but I do think that nature does some pretty amazing things at times and this could be some provavcative food for thought. Or at least something for you all to mock me for.

 

[Polypterus]

2nd link was not totally about blue pike but the map shows where blue pike where and blue pike have been caught. Blue pike where found primarly in lake Erie and Ontario but had the chance to go into the other great lakes. They also were found in many rivers eastward from the 2 great lakes where they lived

this amount of water is huge and theres plenty of places for the fish to be its like looking for a handful of needles in a hay stack and you wonder why the Dnr hasnt found any, only time will tell if they are still some out there.

No the Map shown was a map for Yellows not Blues....

Blue Pike where not only "primarily" found in the East basin they only where found there with occasional strays or isolated cases into the Western basin or Lake Ontario.

The amount of water has been dredged, and traweled and studied three times over looking for these fish. They have not been seen since the last few where sampled. Lake Erie is not the fricking ocean and is easily sampled. I have personally been on boats looking for these fish and am a point of contact in my area for reports of them. I do know these fish.

Happy for your enthusiasm and frankly I wish there was hope but by this point the chances are so very slim that even us really hoping are now just excepting reality and not holding on to ghosts anymore. The fish is unfortunately Extinct. If it shows up I'll eat my words with enthusiasm and personally will be throwing a party to end all parties but as of now I'm not seeing any celebration only deep sorrow at the loss of an entire species before we ever really got to know it.

The Blue pike is a perfect example of why we need to protect all of our resources and always be vigilant in doing so. Early warning, proper research and management could have saved this fish. Instead it was hammered with a combination of brutal forces all at once without anyone thinking they could be in peril. They could not hold on with the abuse and now we are without and just hoping and wishing with futile dreams they may still be out there.

I was lucky enough that for some time I had one of the few mounted blues that sat on my desk at work. Reminded me always why I do what I do.

It's lesson is why I'm now focusing everything and anything I have to Gars and Native Lampreys. Nothing quite like looking into the eyes of an extinct species to really make you work very hard to Never have to do it again.

Again I'm glad you have enthusiasm and think it may be dwelling in the deep somewhere but to those of us that know it we know it is lost..

As Aldo leopold said so well...
To have an ecological education is living in a world of wounds.