Ok. Challenge accepted. I am planning on moving next year and I am bringing all my clown loaches with me. I already have homes for most of my bigger guys that will be hard to move to Ontario with. But I’m planning to get a tank set up, and cycled before we move the actual fish. Time will tell if this actually works out but that is my plan, and will do a thread about it when the time comes.I would never attempt to keep some of the fish you have listed, hence the razzing about Coho.Have you ever seen an adult Coho? I would guess that less than 1% of the aquatic keeping population in North America would be equipped to keep salmon in captivity. I have seen various species of adult trout in public aquariums, and even they look ragged and pathetic looking. That's not a challenge, people mistreat and kill fish (sometimes slowly) every day, around the globe.
I also think that most hobbyists try new fish all the time, which is why you don't often see very old fish on forums. I think a real challenge would be take any species that you are interested in, and try and keep it healthy & thriving for 10, 20, or more years. That's the kind of fishkeeping that impresses me.
Branching out challenge
- Thread starter Deadliestviper7
- Start date
-
- Tags
- challenge
Proper care is always important, and it wouldn't be much of a challenge if it was easy, always research your fish before buyingI would never attempt to keep some of the fish you have listed, hence the razzing about Coho.
I also think that most hobbyists try new fish all the time, which is why you don't often see very old fish on forums. I think a real challenge would be take any species that you are interested in, and try and keep it healthy & thriving for 10, 20, or more years. That's the kind of fishkeeping that impresses me.
You clearly missed the point. Suggesting that people should even consider keeping some of the fish that you have listed is just plain asinine. Permits or not. It's not just about what one can source legally. Who cares if some joker has kept A, B, or C off your list? Where are those fish now? Most likely fertilizing their moms rose bush. Wow, I'm impressed.
All things being equal in the skill set department, keeping uncommon or rare fish is typically nothing more than a financial challenge, and has nothing to do with ones fishkeeping abilities.
And speaking of skill sets, you missed something that should have been very obvious to anyone who is familiar with the dietary requirements of sturgeon, and those of koi.
Sturgeon require high protein, and very high fat levels in their feed, while koi require low to mid range protein, and are relatively low fat eating herbivorous fish. (with no stomach) I grew up where both species were common in the surrounding watersheds, they do not thrive under the same conditions, eating the same food. In a pond, raised in captivity, it's one or the other, not both.
MrsE88 got it right, even the sturgeon species that tolerate warmer water, will still suffer in a pond setting such as hers.
I would like to think that most people come to forums such as this to learn, and learn from others. With that in mind, misinformation, or just plain bad advice, doesn't foster sound husbandry.
So in my mind listing off species of fish in a cavalier manner, as though anyone can keep them given the correct research, or permit, is kind of ridiculous. I have already pointed out one major flaw in this discussion, suggesting that a member could keep a sturgeon, when she clearly keeps koi in her pond, as though the former would be ok due to it tolerating warmer temps than many sturgeon species. Diet wise, these two species could not co-exist, without one of them suffering over the long haul. In fact, the fish would most likely suffer in the short term as well. Stunting and premature death would follow in one, and/or fatty liver deposits, and premature death in the other.
Coho Salmon. Asinine to even suggest this species. Ditto to Arctic Char.
I live in NW Canada where winter temps can reach below -40F, and even I couldn't keep these fish over the summer months due to their cold water requirements. Not to mention their adult sizes, and the tank size required to keep them in a humane manner, indoors.
From the net ….
Arctic char are more cold-water tolerant than many other trout and salmon and exhibit maximum growth at temperatures of 12–15 °C (Delabbio, 1995, Larsson and Berglund, 1998). In addition, unpublished research from Iceland indicates that the optimum temperature for grow-out of Arctic char may be closer to 10 °C (Thorarensen, Agricultural College of Holar, Iceland, personal communication).
Fish are highly reliant on temperature (Boeuf & Le Bail, 1999), and the variation in sea temperature is considered to be the most important biophysical factor that influences salmon growth. Efficient salmon growth was previously believed to be best promoted at water
temperatures between 13 – 17 degrees Celsius (Wallace, 1993). However, recent studies show that growth is better achieved at colder temperatures.
Even at the highest temps previously noted for optimum growth and overall health, we are talking about water in the 50's F range. These are large powerful swimmers, that at mature sizes aren't going to do well in even 500-1,000 gallon tanks with chillers. They will stress out, and become sickly over time.
Who here can replicate their proper environment, in systems ranging in the thousands of gallons?
Please hold your hands up and take the challenge! lol
I get where Wes is coming from, this is his niche in the hobby, and again, kudos to him for seeking out the odd and unusual, but boys, let's not get carried away. I would really hate to see someone attempt to keep some of the fish listed (and there's more on the lists posted here) only to end up doing what a beginner often does, which is kill fish.
So in my mind listing off species of fish in a cavalier manner, as though anyone can keep them given the correct research, or permit, is kind of ridiculous. I have already pointed out one major flaw in this discussion, suggesting that a member could keep a sturgeon, when she clearly keeps koi in her pond, as though the former would be ok due to it tolerating warmer temps than many sturgeon species. Diet wise, these two species could not co-exist, without one of them suffering over the long haul. In fact, the fish would most likely suffer in the short term as well. Stunting and premature death would follow in one, and/or fatty liver deposits, and premature death in the other.
Coho Salmon. Asinine to even suggest this species. Ditto to Arctic Char.
I live in NW Canada where winter temps can reach below -40F, and even I couldn't keep these fish over the summer months due to their cold water requirements. Not to mention their adult sizes, and the tank size required to keep them in a humane manner, indoors.
From the net ….
Arctic char are more cold-water tolerant than many other trout and salmon and exhibit maximum growth at temperatures of 12–15 °C (Delabbio, 1995, Larsson and Berglund, 1998). In addition, unpublished research from Iceland indicates that the optimum temperature for grow-out of Arctic char may be closer to 10 °C (Thorarensen, Agricultural College of Holar, Iceland, personal communication).
Fish are highly reliant on temperature (Boeuf & Le Bail, 1999), and the variation in sea temperature is considered to be the most important biophysical factor that influences salmon growth. Efficient salmon growth was previously believed to be best promoted at water
temperatures between 13 – 17 degrees Celsius (Wallace, 1993). However, recent studies show that growth is better achieved at colder temperatures.
Even at the highest temps previously noted for optimum growth and overall health, we are talking about water in the 50's F range. These are large powerful swimmers, that at mature sizes aren't going to do well in even 500-1,000 gallon tanks with chillers. They will stress out, and become sickly over time.
Who here can replicate their proper environment, in systems ranging in the thousands of gallons?
Please hold your hands up and take the challenge! lol
I get where Wes is coming from, this is his niche in the hobby, and again, kudos to him for seeking out the odd and unusual, but boys, let's not get carried away. I would really hate to see someone attempt to keep some of the fish listed (and there's more on the lists posted here) only to end up doing what a beginner often does, which is kill fish.
fatboy8
I believe I already gave you the answer .As for
RD.
Koi and sturgeon can easily be kept together,as a matter of fact it has apparently been done for decades if not hundreds of years, and it's really simple: feed the koi the koi food, and feed the sturgeon the meaty foods.I feel you've gotten really agoraphobic, you lack growth, letting the internet do all the thinking for you, Break the mold! That's all I'm asking you to do. The list isn't intended to be a "you must keep this, it isn't meant to be inclusive or exclusive, but instead it was meant to provoke thought and discussion.
Children, play nice or get a time out.
Also, it's generally a good idea to listen to
RD.
when he's trying to teach you all something. Believe it or not, he knows what he's talking about. Gruff or not, he's one of the most knowledgable members here.
Thread closed for cleaning, pending infractions.
Also, it's generally a good idea to listen to
RD.
when he's trying to teach you all something. Believe it or not, he knows what he's talking about. Gruff or not, he's one of the most knowledgable members here. Thread closed for cleaning, pending infractions.
In a few short hours cannabis will become legal nation wide (in Canada) and none of this will matter. lol
I'm not sure exactly how one goes about feeding one fish, while the other fish just watch from the sidelines? The problem is this viper, most fish that are classified as herbivores, soon learn to like the taste of fatty meaty foods, and while the koi's metabolism slows down in cooler winter temps, a sturgeon will still require regular feedings. It's a problem, a very real problem, if one cares about the long term health of their fish. See link below. That is just a single thread from a single forum, that I found via google in under 60 seconds. Those sentiments from koi & sturgeon owners, who have kept the two species together, echo mine.
https://www.pond-life.me.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6144
Both koi and sturgeon are very long lived species, so the fact that someone has pulled this off for a few years, or even several years, means nada in the grand scheme of things. Yes, poor husbandry practices go back decades, perhaps even hundreds of years. Too bad some folks don't learn from history, and apparently keep making the same mistakes over & over again. Perhaps it's because unlike household pets like dogs & cats, fish are generally much easier to replace? Is that thought provoking enough for this discussion?
I'm not sure exactly how one goes about feeding one fish, while the other fish just watch from the sidelines? The problem is this viper, most fish that are classified as herbivores, soon learn to like the taste of fatty meaty foods, and while the koi's metabolism slows down in cooler winter temps, a sturgeon will still require regular feedings. It's a problem, a very real problem, if one cares about the long term health of their fish. See link below. That is just a single thread from a single forum, that I found via google in under 60 seconds. Those sentiments from koi & sturgeon owners, who have kept the two species together, echo mine.
https://www.pond-life.me.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6144
Both koi and sturgeon are very long lived species, so the fact that someone has pulled this off for a few years, or even several years, means nada in the grand scheme of things. Yes, poor husbandry practices go back decades, perhaps even hundreds of years. Too bad some folks don't learn from history, and apparently keep making the same mistakes over & over again. Perhaps it's because unlike household pets like dogs & cats, fish are generally much easier to replace? Is that thought provoking enough for this discussion?
