Can anyone identify my gar
- Thread starter Weylin
- Start date
keepinfish;1189095; said:
you've just swapped sides from "isn't that what everybody else is doing(guessing)
" to "I have also seen lots of Florida/spotted and shortnose gars." and now to "I thought it would be best for it to be determined by solomon or poly."to me the juvies look shortnoses but from the overhead shot it seems to look like a spotted/florida. i'm interested, how are spotted and shortnosed juvies different?
don't worry keepinfish, nothing personal and whoever said it was right, the debate isn't really about who is guessing or whatever, it's about the fishes here 
getting back to the fish, the juveniles look somewhat unusual for juvie Florida/spotted gars, but if you look closely the dorsal patterning looks very similar to what we've seen with many Florida/spotted gars, and is different from the typical shortnose juvenile.
it's hard to always go on pattern though, because fishes at the LFS are often times flushed of their true colors, and generally highly stressed. i think the best bet is to go by the larger juvenile shots here, if all those shots were presented, the logical choice would be Florida/spotted. there's always a chance of a hybrid, and this cross would be really tough to determine...but in the end, i think going by Occam's razor is the answer and most logical--
--solomon
getting back to the fish, the juveniles look somewhat unusual for juvie Florida/spotted gars, but if you look closely the dorsal patterning looks very similar to what we've seen with many Florida/spotted gars, and is different from the typical shortnose juvenile.
it's hard to always go on pattern though, because fishes at the LFS are often times flushed of their true colors, and generally highly stressed. i think the best bet is to go by the larger juvenile shots here, if all those shots were presented, the logical choice would be Florida/spotted. there's always a chance of a hybrid, and this cross would be really tough to determine...but in the end, i think going by Occam's razor is the answer and most logical--
--solomon
Weylin;1189178; said:
if they were hybrids...the lfs probably wouldnt even know, because it would be accidental or naturally occuring. therefore the price would be no different than that of a normal florida/spotted gar. it is probably just a dull patterend florida/spotted gar, i just said hybrid as a third option. either way...very good price. they are about double that where i am.
ethnics;1189399; said:
actually at that size a shortnose gar will have a narrower snout than a Florida/spotted gar. in fact, most shortnoses you will see in private collections will have narrower snouts since they don't start to broaden (drastically) until after a couple years, and unfortunately most shortnoses die before this due to their relatively unstable nature.
was it you who had a bigger one? i believe that one had a nice broad snout and was a great looking specimen...definitely unusual to see in the hobby--
--solomon
yah i have one thats pretty big, over 20" for sure and it has such a broad snout. but i had it since it was about 10 or 11" and i've always noticed it to have a broader snout then my spotteds. i never knew they had death issues in the hobby cuz he's never givin me any issues ever. other then attempting to take down tankmates that were kinda small lol
xander13;1189259; said:you've just swapped sides from "isn't that what everybody else is doing(guessing)
to me the juvies look shortnoses but from the overhead shot it seems to look like a spotted/florida. i'm interested, how are spotted and shortnosed juvies different?
I didn't realize that giving my opinion on a fish that is in question, would bother you so bad! Obviously you the expert here.
WEylin,
Sorry for causing your thread to get derailed with "flamming" on me. I thought I would throw my opinion in there too. I didn't realize that me making a comment would get everybody so upset.
Solomon,
thanks for your comments. I agree it is about id'ing the fish in question.
Lepisosteus sp. is an accurate ID..... No question on it being a Lepisosteus species, so it is one of four species.. Longnosed is out... no question about that so you have three left. Of These three, Juvenile fish can be morphologically similar when below 4 inches. Specific traits can be seen in them at this size to distinguish platostomus from the Oculatus group but these can get muddied especially with a fish from an unknown origin...In general it is always best to give the fish time before thinking you know what it is...
Now lets bounce to the older "juvenile".. In doing my usual OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) Transverse counts I found something interesting and that is this fish is on the high counts for a Oculatus complex fish and on the low for a platostomus. This given traits from the first photos such as the very thick Caudal peduncle makes this fish fit with Platostomus.. yet other traits particularly the head proportions have now again shown somewhat intermediate traits IMO and IME with these fish. (I have one Platostomus from a known locality not containing Oculatus that is fitting the Oculatus complex mold as far as head and snout proportions right now) IMO I would give this fish a bit longer to fully develop..and just continue to take tons of pics..The more the better... as it grows and post them here. Sooner or later there will be that one pic that pushes doubt aside.
Because of the intermediary traits being expressed in this fish it may not be easily ID'd by a photo (or these photos) alone and I'm personally hesitant to do so at this time.
It is likely a Oculatus or Platyrhincus that is just showing the high ranges of variation..I can't be 100% sure yet but this would be the most logical conclusion. I'm still seeing a little Platostomus in there so I do not want to discard that just yet.
Given that it is still alive in a large tank does erode Platostomus a bit
Now lets bounce to the older "juvenile".. In doing my usual OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) Transverse counts I found something interesting and that is this fish is on the high counts for a Oculatus complex fish and on the low for a platostomus. This given traits from the first photos such as the very thick Caudal peduncle makes this fish fit with Platostomus.. yet other traits particularly the head proportions have now again shown somewhat intermediate traits IMO and IME with these fish. (I have one Platostomus from a known locality not containing Oculatus that is fitting the Oculatus complex mold as far as head and snout proportions right now) IMO I would give this fish a bit longer to fully develop..and just continue to take tons of pics..The more the better... as it grows and post them here. Sooner or later there will be that one pic that pushes doubt aside.
Because of the intermediary traits being expressed in this fish it may not be easily ID'd by a photo (or these photos) alone and I'm personally hesitant to do so at this time.
It is likely a Oculatus or Platyrhincus that is just showing the high ranges of variation..I can't be 100% sure yet but this would be the most logical conclusion. I'm still seeing a little Platostomus in there so I do not want to discard that just yet.
Given that it is still alive in a large tank does erode Platostomus a bit
